Computerzied 4473s

[alfsauve]

I understand that the hardworking and constantly harassed FFLs would love to get a tool that would help them do business and comply with the ATFs demands.  However, I fear any "computerization" of 4473 and especially if the software comes from the ATF.

I'll admit that I don't know the specifics of either the private brand or the ATF version of the software, but I can imagine (20+ years of computer software experience), that the software would act somewhat along the lines of a TaxCut or TurboTax program.  It would step the FFL and the customer through a series of Q&A and would eventually print a perfect final 4473 with no administrative errors for the customer to sign.    NO PROBLEM SO FAR.  In fact if that's all the program did, I don't see why anyone would need to get ATF approval.  The final result would be a signed copy of the 4473. 

What troubles me is that it appears these programs retain all that information in a database, just like the tax programs do.  Now for repeat buyers it makes filling out the next purchase a breeze.  This information could also interfaced with inventory and accounting records to insure stricter controls over the transfer of weapons.   The problem is it also is the start of a database of transfers that can be easily accessed or combined into a national gun registry.  Overnight, legislation could be enacted that would force all FFLs to upload their databases to the ATF.     In fact, I'm scared the ATF version will have provisions built in to facilitate this function from the get-go.  And one wouldn't wonder if the ATF, instead of sending agents to inspect records, might conveniently offer to audit them remotely?  Even perform traces remotely.  And in the process capture all the records, over time, into a centralized database.   If I were a conspiracy theorist, I might even suspect the ATF of building spybot routines and back doors into their version.

Somebody could make a simple program or Excel macro that facilitates in printing a correct form, that's about as far as I want my FFL to go.  Any "database" of 4473s is only inviting the next step towards confiscation.   I believe the law forbids the "computerization" of 4473s by the ATF.  Of course the American people were also promised SSNs would NEVER, EVER be used for identification purposes. (My original card still says so.)   And I sleep well at night knowing Congress promised that 4473s would never be used to create a national gun registry......NOT.

[Pathfinder]

My understanding is that the private company is very concerned because they submitted their program for approval by the BATFE - and they got silence for a long time. As I have read, the company got its congressman involved, and all of a sudden the program was approved - but at the same time the BATFE announced they were producing their own version of the software. THAT is the one I would be worried about.

One of the interesting side-notes was that the private company was trying to build a system - and I do not know about the database issue, I would imagine it would have to save data just like the form has to be saved - BUT, and this is the key, the program is intended to keep FFLs from making all of those pesky little administrative errors that get them fined and/or losing their FFL - or jailed.

Methinks the BATFE didn't like the idea of losing all of that power and control that would come with the lack of errors. I would also guess that using the BATFE program will not protect an FFL from errors that just happened to exist in the BATFE software.

As a computer guy for 30++ years, I agree, an electronic database is not a good thing. Maybe the software prints the actual form that gets signed, and the data evaporates? I would hope . . . .

[Fatman]

Alf, the BATF version could also 'back door' the database to the Bureau. All they have to do is advertise an upgrade is available for download - and upload the database when you connect for that.  No one the wiser.

[alfsauve]

......Maybe the software prints the actual form that gets signed, and the data evaporates? I would hope . . . .

If they take a cue from the IRS, these program probably won't even "print" a form 4473, just a signature voucher.  The "form" would be retained electronically.

And besides the possibility of a clandestine "back door", the IRS can come in the "front" simply by perusing the files as part of their audit of the records.  Something they are allowed to do, but done electronically, remotely, it gives them the ability to also retain the information they examine.   And remote access would be the next step in the slippery slope.

[runstowin]

I posted this link on a thread some time back, about a company that developed the software.




By Drew Zahn
© 2008 WorldNetDaily

A small software company trying to create a program to help gun dealers comply with federal regulations now believes that the government purposefully stalled and then swiped the technology to create a copycat program of its own.

James LaMonte is the CEO and founder of Coloseum Software Corp. in Mansfield, Mass. He believes the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) used the government's muscle to extract technology from his business for its own use.

LaMonte told Gun Owners of America, a non-profit lobbyist group defending Second Amendment gun rights, "As a small business owner, I never would have thought that our biggest competition was the United States government."

The GOA's website likens what the government allegedly did to Coloseum Software to the IRS creating a "government version" of Turbo Tax to shove the popular tax preparation software company out of business.

The GOA also fears that by muscling a government software program into gun stores, the BATFE may also be seeking an electronic "back door" for unrestricted access to gun dealers' records.

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78334

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