Author Topic: I wish I'd had a gun, not a camera  (Read 7277 times)

jnevis

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Re: I wish I'd had a gun, not a camera
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2008, 02:10:23 PM »
Terrorists would probably respond differently, specially if they had any training.  I don't think she would have.

Just remember that terrorists are generally cowards that will break off an attack when confronted.  Most attacks are stopped in the planning phase when the target becomes too great a threat (armed, secure).  The "training" is how to carry out an attack not respond to a armed force.  Palestinian bombers have vaporised themselves (minimizing damage) at the threat of force when a Police officer or armed citizen realizes there is an attack occurring.
When seconds mean the difference between life and death, the police will be minutes away.

You are either SOLVING the problem, or you ARE the problem.

PegLeg45

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Re: I wish I'd had a gun, not a camera
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2008, 05:12:25 PM »
Both very noble..... But I have to tell you, the only thing I would be concerned about would be getting out alive.

It may sound cowardly, but I have a wife and kids. I carry a gun to survive and to protect the lives of my loved ones. The only way I would engage an active shooter would be in a situation where I HAD TO  in order to get me and my family out alive.

Dont get me wrong, what you are saying is very heroic and I commend anyone who would commit such acts of bravery.... BUT my number one concern in a situation like the one in India would be to make sure my wife did not become a widow and that my kids do not have to grow up without a father.

When I am out and around town I usually am with my kids and/or wife, and in those situations the same rules apply. If I am alone and see a person being attacked by a bad guy, I would engage him if I had enough of a tactical advantage to swiftly end the situation (i.e. all the time in the world for a headshot) without any real danger to myself -- The element of surprise would have to be near 100%...... BUT there is no way in hell I would start a shoot out to save a perfect stranger if my wife and two little kids were anywhere close. 
 

+1...I agree 100%

Nothing cowardly about being a dedicated family man. Protect you and yours first.
I'm not saying I would never help a bystander....but the odds would have to tactically in my favor.
"I expect perdition, I always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damned disease." ~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo

For the Patriots of this country, the Constitution is second only to the Bible for most. For those who love this country, but do not share my personal beliefs, it is their Bible. To them nothing comes before the Constitution of these United States of America. For this we are all labeled potential terrorists. ~ Dean Garrison

"When it comes to the enemy, just because they ain't pullin' a trigger, doesn't mean they ain't totin' ammo for those that are."~PegLeg

cookie62

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Re: I wish I'd had a gun, not a camera
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2008, 05:37:34 PM »
First let me say, as I did on the MB Blog side, that the picture of the terrorist standing there (basically unarmed BTW, no mag in the AK) plus some footage of a couple of mall and school shootings should  be made into a commercial with a voice  over with "The Police can't help you until it's actually over" and a graphic stating "This only happens in 'Gun Free Zones'." 

Second, I recently completed a CrimJustice course with our local Sheriff as the instructor.  He was the SRT commander and taught "Active Shooter Response" for a number of years.  The policy here, and in a lot of other places, is that the first responding officer is to make entry and at a minimum locate and possibly neutralize an active shooter.  The days of "Hold and wait for SWAT" are over.  There is a lot of emphiasis on single and multiple (two-four) officer building clearing being taught at the Academy.  Active shooters and terrorists aren't planning on walking out and want the body count as high as they can get it.  Waiting for back up will only add to the count.  Plus as a "Duty to act" an officer is acting for the common good by stopping a shooter which is above the protect the individual rule.

Third, the officer that stopped the Utah Mall shooting a couple years ago kicked himself repeated for not having at least one extra mag.  He carried a 1911 but only had the 8+1 to use against a guy with plenty of firepower.  Even only one mag would have been 17 rounds to stop the threat.  Even if the AWB is enacted and the limit is 10 in a mag that's 21 available if you need it.  The extra weight/discomfort is nothing to needing it if the exriment impacts the rotator.  You as an individual may not be responsible to act but you should use all means available to you to escape and stay alive.  If that means going on the offensive to get to an exit so be it.  

my $.02


That is the current training that I have seen. Officers are now taught that you must neutralize the active shooter as quickly as possible.
A bird in the hand is worth..Well, about a box of shells!
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Solus

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Re: I wish I'd had a gun, not a camera
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2008, 12:30:00 PM »
On a related note, it was almost one year ago that Jeanne Assam demonstrated the proper way to deal with an active shooter when he made the mistake of coming into her New Life church.  If I recall correctly, he had an AR, a shotgun, and a couple of handguns and ammo out the wazoo.  She had her Beretta 92.  Surely the last thing he expected was for someone to return fire and to confront him in an aggressive posture. 

Terrorists would probably respond differently, specially if they had any training.  I don't think she would have.

In this incident, there was an eye witness report of another armed church member who did not engage the shooter, even after being urged to shoot by the eye witness and also did not give his firearm to the eye witness who identified  himself as a Viet Nam era combat veteran (cannot really fault someone for not handing their loaded weapon to someone though)
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
—Patrick Henry

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
— Daniel Webster

MikeBjerum

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Re: I wish I'd had a gun, not a camera
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2008, 03:40:08 PM »
In this incident, there was an eye witness report of another armed church member who did not engage the shooter, even after being urged to shoot by the eye witness and also did not give his firearm to the eye witness who identified  himself as a Viet Nam era combat veteran (cannot really fault someone for not handing their loaded weapon to someone though)

First decission we need to make is whether or not to carry.  The second and tougher is whether or not to use the weapon.  There is no way to answer number two until you are forced to make the decission.
If I appear taller than other men it is because I am standing on the shoulders of others.

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Re: I wish I'd had a gun, not a camera
« Reply #25 on: Today at 06:55:10 PM »

cooptire

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Re: I wish I'd had a gun, not a camera
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2008, 04:51:46 PM »
First decission we need to make is whether or not to carry.  The second and tougher is whether or not to use the weapon.  There is no way to answer number two until you are forced to make the decission.

Exactly right. I am licensed to carry, but that doesn't mean I enjoy the need. To actually have to pull it out of the holster & pull the trigger is something that I think about everyday. I will if I have to, but I sure as H*LL don't want to!
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." Patrick Henry

PegLeg45

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Re: I wish I'd had a gun, not a camera
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2008, 05:37:20 PM »
First decission we need to make is whether or not to carry.  The second and tougher is whether or not to use the weapon.  There is no way to answer number two until you are forced to make the decission.

Exactly.

It is as much mental as it is physical preparedness.
One can always make the conscious choice NOT to use a firearm, even if it is available.
It's always better to have and not need, than to need and not have....IMO.

But if one is not mentally prepared to use said firearm when necessary, then it should be left at home.
"I expect perdition, I always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damned disease." ~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo

For the Patriots of this country, the Constitution is second only to the Bible for most. For those who love this country, but do not share my personal beliefs, it is their Bible. To them nothing comes before the Constitution of these United States of America. For this we are all labeled potential terrorists. ~ Dean Garrison

"When it comes to the enemy, just because they ain't pullin' a trigger, doesn't mean they ain't totin' ammo for those that are."~PegLeg

ericire12

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Re: I wish I'd had a gun, not a camera
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2008, 05:57:18 PM »
Exactly.

It is as much mental as it is physical preparedness.
One can always make the conscious choice NOT to use a firearm, even if it is available.
It's always better to have and not need, than to need and not have....IMO.

But if one is not mentally prepared to use said firearm when necessary, then it should be left at home.

Not for Plaxico!  ;D
Everything I needed to learn in life I learned from Country Music.

PegLeg45

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Re: I wish I'd had a gun, not a camera
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2008, 06:03:12 PM »
Not for Plaxico!  ;D

Yes, that rule doesn't apply to the NFL "Pigskin Plinkers"...... ;D :o ;D
"I expect perdition, I always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damned disease." ~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo

For the Patriots of this country, the Constitution is second only to the Bible for most. For those who love this country, but do not share my personal beliefs, it is their Bible. To them nothing comes before the Constitution of these United States of America. For this we are all labeled potential terrorists. ~ Dean Garrison

"When it comes to the enemy, just because they ain't pullin' a trigger, doesn't mean they ain't totin' ammo for those that are."~PegLeg

 

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