FN Highpower aficianados, possible nazi high power

[m25operator]

One of my customers just brought back a pistol from his recently deceased father. He brought it to me for mechanical evaluation as far as being able to shoot it and to identify it.

Well I looked at it quickly while at work, and said, Hey nice FN Highpower.

Took it home and disassembled and cleaned it, removed lots of WD40 that was gumming up the works, bore nice and shiny, and honest holster wear, with minor pitting in small areas from living in a leather holster for what I would guess was most of it's life.

After reassembly, I was tooth brushing the cocking serrations when something small caught my not so good eyes, a german eagle with a swastika in it's claws, just forward of the cocking serrations on the left side, and an accompanying mark just forward of the left grip under the slide release, also on the exposed barrel hood. Serial number matches the barrel, frame and slide. On the left side of the trigger guard, forward of the trigger was  marked, what could be mp, mr, mb, not real crisp on the last letter.

Also on the frame and slide were the markings, w8a140, with kind of like eagle wings above the number, and both magazines have the same number. The flap holster is marked as best as I can make out, m5586, no other markings, brown leather in very good condition.


The left side of the slide reads: Fabrique Nationale
                                              D'Armes De Guerre
                                              Herstal Belgique
                                              Browning patent depose

Any Highpower experts out there???

No I won't beat my customer out of his pistol, but want him to know what he might have.

Thanks in advance

[tombogan03884]

See if you can check by Serial number, after they took Belgium the Nazi's did issue Hi Powers but a forgery could have been created by adding the German markings.
Since it belonged to his father, Did his Dad serve in Europe, I don't believe any US forces were issued Brownings and I don't think any Common wealth forces were issued Belgian Brownings so it PROBABLY is genuine.

[Fatman]

Maybe he's German. My B-I-L got two Mausers from gramps.  Seems he servered in both WWI and WWII on the German side.  The one from WWI is full length, and he carved the stock with all the places he served, with dates. The WWII one is much shorter, all numbers match w/ eagles.

I'll help the hunt on your FN, m25.  Good practice for my leet searching skillz. 

[Fatman]

So far, found this question ans answer:

Q:

I would like to know the value of a WWII German 32 Automatic pistol.
the markings are as follows Fabrique National DeGuerre Hertal Belgique
Browning patent depose. Serial #82497 is present on the body,slide,
receiver and nose cap.The marking WA140 with the German eagle and
swastika are stamped on three places body, receiver and slide. The
initals MR are on the trigger guard. The bluing is 97% intact. Slide
is tight. Two clips with excellent springs. Holster excellent
condition. Pin through leather strap closure. Has exterior pocket for
the second clip. Overall the pistol and holster are in excellent
condition

A:

Thank you for allowing me to answer your interesting question. Bearing
in mind that in order to get an accurate appraisal the pistol would
have to be physically examined by a qualified appraiser. Based on your
description however it is possible to give you an estimate as to the
reasonable value of the firearm. First, let?s get some interesting
background out of the way:

Master gun manufacturer, Moses Browning, originally designed this
particular firearm.

The name ?Fabrique National DeGuerre Herstal Belgique? (sometimes seen
as ?"Fabrique Nationale D'Armes De Guerre Herstal Belgique") is the
name and location of the manufacturer:
NATIONAL FACTORY OF MILITARY WEAPONS, HERSTAL, BELGIUM
(In modern times these firearms are referred to simply as ?FN?s?)

The German marking ?Waffenamt? (which may or may not be stamped on the
example you have) is loosely translated, ?weapons office? and is
similar in meaning to the English word ?arsenal?, or weapons storage
area.

The marking ?WA140? identifies the inspector who inspected and
approved the quality of the part that the stamp is found on, or the
whole weapon.

From what I gather in my research, in terms of value these firearms
have increased a bit in value over the years. Collector interest in
these pieces is usually limited unless they are in superb condition
(95% or better original finish). The really good news is that there is
greater interest in the higher end collector pieces that are stamped
or engraved (as yours is, i.e. those with German military markings
such as a tiny eagle and swastika over a code like Wa140). This
appears to be almost universally true with these types of FN pistols
regardless of the caliber.

OLDGUNS.NET
http://www.oldguns.net/q&a10_96.htm#18

As I sometimes do, I turned to one of the many leading authorities I
have in my personal collection of ?Who?s Who? in the antique world. In
this case I consulted Bruce Herman of Grenadier Military Antiques.

GRENADIER MILITARY ANTIQUES.
http://www.grenadiermilitaryantiques.com/

Mr. Herman has an extensive background in Western European and
American military history and has been called upon by notable auction
houses for expertise and advice in the field of military antiques. He
is also a frequent guest appraiser for PBS?s famous ?Antiques
Roadshow?.

ANTIQUES ROADSHOW
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/roadshow/series/appraisers/f-k/herman_bruce.html

Based solely on what you have described, and without physically
examining the pistol himself, Mr. Herman estimated the value of a
weapon similar to the one you mentioned likely to be somewhere in the
$450.00 to $850.00 range.

As with all antiques and collectibles, this estimate, of course, may
increase somewhat if you have original accessories and may increase
significantly above average (though probably not immensely so) if you
have accompanying documentation establishing provenance or can
determine who the owner/carrier (possibly ?MR?) was and something
about him.

I hope you find that my answer exceeds your expectations. If you have
any questions about my research please post a clarification request
prior to rating the answer. Otherwise I welcome your rating and your
final comments and I look forward to working with you again in the
near future. Thank you for bringing your question to us.

So your W8a140 (maybe the 8 is a B) is the inspectors initials and number.  What's odd is tha number for this .32 almost matches yours. The guy answering seems to think that MR could be the owner, but if this is a military weapon, I would doubt it. Also doubt an 'MR' owned both your High Power and the above .32 . 

I'll try to find out what the MR stands for.  My guess is it's the person at the factory responsible for the manufacture or final check. the Nazis would want someone to hold responsible if the gun was sabotaged at the factory. They were bad that way...

[m25operator]

I appreciate your efforts Fatman, I was able to spend a little time and found a description on another forum, that besides the serial number, ( which I did not release ) was identical in everyway, and even showed a picture of the holster, where the Nazi marks were, and I examined the holster again, and yep, it's there, just very small.  I need to get a few pics before I turn this back to my client, and share them here. I really hope he is pleased, and I will advise him of the value, (historic and monetary) and before He inherited this was looking for a 9mm pistol, this is still a good solid piece, but if it was stolen would be a heart breaker, My advice to him, will be, keep it as a collectors piece, not to mention his dad's pistol, and do go shoot it, but, if he's gonna carry it, carry on his person, not in the glove box. He could sell it here for probably 800 - 1,000 bucks and get 2 good 9mm's, or 1 good one, with money left over for ammo and spare mags.

A friend of mine will take it to his gunstore tomorrow for a real evaluation, but the figures came from him describing it to their recognized evaluator.

I'm just really glad he brought it to me, and I get to share in the findings.

[Sponsor]

[Fatman]

Go here:

http://oldguns.net/sn_php/ger_ord_code_lookup.php


 Got this :

140 = German WW-II Heerswaffenamt inspector's mark on arms produced at Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre, Herstal, Belgium.(late) .

and this:

wb = Hasag, Berlin, Germany

[Fatman]

I appreciate your efforts Fatman, I was able to spend a little time and found a description on another forum, that besides the serial number, ( which I did not release ) was identical in everyway, and even showed a picture of the holster, where the Nazi marks were, and I examined the holster again, and yep, it's there, just very small.  I need to get a few pics before I turn this back to my client, and share them here. I really hope he is pleased, and I will advise him of the value, (historic and monetary) and before He inherited this was looking for a 9mm pistol, this is still a good solid piece, but if it was stolen would be a heart breaker, My advice to him, will be, keep it as a collectors piece, not to mention his dad's pistol, and do go shoot it, but, if he's gonna carry it, carry on his person, not in the glove box. He could sell it here for probably 800 - 1,000 bucks and get 2 good 9mm's, or 1 good one, with money left over for ammo and spare mags.

A friend of mine will take it to his gunstore tomorrow for a real evaluation, but the figures came from him describing it to their recognized evaluator.

I'm just really glad he brought it to me, and I get to share in the findings.

Cool.

Still check the above site, good stuff.

[ExploderKPA]

I have in my possession a nazi browning high caliber. With the marking W8A140. Serial Numbers 193378, 11171. The older posts to this topic were very helpful.

I have the original holster and military documentation that it was brought home by the 84th Infantry division in Europe. What I don't have is the original magazine. I assume the nazi paratrooper had replacement magazines that he was using. Where could I find an original magazine the make my collection complete?

There are some questions that I still have. This is a family are loom from my grandfather and I wish to know more about it.
There are other markings on the gun besides the serial number and the nazi stamp on the slide. On the chamber and on the left side of the frame are the same stamps: An "E" with a star or asterisk above it. The letters PV with an animal form in rampant position according to traditional heraldry. This symbol is only on the chamber of the gun: Its a crown and a circle surrounding the letters LG. What do all THESE markins mean?

How can i figure out what year this gun was made?

[tombogan03884]

Hope this helps both of you

http://www.browning.com/customerservice/dategun/index.asp

According to the NRA Fact book the Rampant lion (?) over the letters PV is a proof mark indicating "hard" temper.
The letters LG in a circle indicate a military arm.
On German arms the letter "E" indicates semi automatic. I do not know if this is the case with arms from occupied countries.
Some other info may be found here;

http://www.proofhouse.com/cm/ger_ord_codes.htm

I could not find a "W8A" but "140" was a code for FN products.