Author Topic: Breaking in the new PIF  (Read 12286 times)

tombogan03884

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Re: Breaking in the new PIF
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2008, 10:20:03 PM »
I never had to form Inconel , but machining it's a pain, it uses up a lot of tools.

As for T - 6 we just never used it on any thing but flat parts, usually had an alloy call out on the print, same as in machining.

Fatman

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Re: Breaking in the new PIF
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2008, 10:13:24 AM »
I'd recommend the following:

JP Bore guide
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=115057

Carbon cleaning rod
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=342014

I use tipton brushes and jags and good old Hoppe's #9. (full strokes by the way with the brush. One push all the way to exit the barrel. Then pull it all the way back. With the patches and using a jag, you get one pass thru the barrel to exit and drop it on the table by the muzzle. Keep using new wet patches for these passes until clean. Then shoot next shot. The most important thing is to not screw up the crown of the muzzle in any way.)

By the way, you could also take a look at Tubbs ammo for break in to speed things up.

www.davidtubb.com

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=380492


Cool. Thanks. Tubbs seems to be a pretty good way to go.  Another 70 smackers going bye-bye, lol

 
Anti: I think some of you gentleman would choose to apply a gun shaped remedy to any problem or potential problem that presented itself? Your reverance (sic) for firearms is maintained with an almost religious zeal. The mind boggles! it really does...

Me: Naw, we just apply a gun-shaped remedy to those extreme life threatening situations that call for it. All the less urgent problems we're willing to discuss.

1776 Rebel

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Re: Breaking in the new PIF
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2008, 11:26:54 AM »
Fatman

I have to admit to being a guy who had the old man drill into my head over and over again "use the best tools", "do it right or don't do it at all", "buy quality buy quality". If you were exposed to this crap for the better part of 20 years you would turn out like me. So I plead to being a total nut case when it comes to stuff like this.

The JP bore guide is a really fine piece of machining. And once you start working on your AR you will see why you want a bore guide in cleaning. One piece carbon fiber cleaning rods seem to be state of the art in rods. Jags are better than the eye loop thingys. I go to a gunshow and there is a guy pitching Butchs Bore Shine. Yep, I says, GIVE ME A QUART ! I went back to Hoppes when I opened the bottle and used some. DAMM IT NEARLY PEALED MY SHOE POLISH OFF ! That stuff is powerful. If I had more guts I might use it. There is though lots of great cleaning product out there. I bought and used the Tubbs system on my competition AR. I can understand the concept (nearly like hand lapping) and I will swear that I could feel the bore becoming smoother while I pushed the cleaning patches thru the barrel  ! Yup its expensive but the way I view it is my kids don't  really need to eat 3 meals a day anyway !

Here is what cinched the deal for me. Lilja builds some of the best barrels in the world. Take a look at the video on their home page of a new Remington 700 barrel vs a  Lilja hand lapped barrel. Nothing like pictures to scare me into spending more money !!!

http://www.riflebarrels.com/

Good luck on the break in and tell us how she shoots...

PegLeg45

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Re: Breaking in the new PIF
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2008, 03:10:02 PM »
Now that was a very informative video. Makes me want to invest in a bore scope. I'm sending this on to some friends in the long range business.

Here is some more info on barrels from Shilen:


Can I use Moly coated bullets to break-in my barrel?
Some bullet and barrel makers say that the best way to break in a barrel that is to be used with moly bullets is to break it in with moly coated bullets. Others say to use uncoated bullets to break the barrel in, then start using coated bullets. We hear from a tremendous amount of top-notch shooters and gunsmiths and they all have their own opinions on this subject (as you already know). In compiling this wealth of information, we have come to this conclusion: There is no BEST way. Some barrels seem to break-in very quickly with coated bullets. Some seem to take longer. We've had shooters tell us that if a barrel didn't seem to want to really "come-in" with coated bullets, a few uncoated bullets down the barrel actually helped the initial break-in. Then they went back to the coated bullets with good results. Our recommendation is to load and tune the rifle with jacketed, uncoated bullets. Then try the moly coated ones.
Back to top.


How should I break-in my new Shilen barrel?
Break-in procedures are as diverse as cleaning techniques. Shilen, Inc. introduced a break-in procedure mostly because customers seemed to think that we should have one. By and large, we don't think breaking-in a new barrel is a big deal. All our stainless steel barrels have been hand lapped as part of their production, as well as any chrome moly barrel we install. Hand lapping a barrel polishes the interior of the barrel and eliminates sharp edges or burrs that could cause jacket deformity. This, in fact, is what you are doing when you break-in a new barrel through firing and cleaning.
Here is our standard recommendation: Clean after each shot for the first 5 shots. The remainder of the break-in is to clean every 5 shots for the next 50 shots. During this time, don't just shoot bullets down the barrel during this 50 shot procedure. This is a great time to begin load development. Zero the scope over the first 5 shots, and start shooting for accuracy with 5-shot groups for the next 50 shots. Same thing applies to fire forming cases for improved or wildcat cartridges. Just firing rounds down a barrel to form brass without any regard to their accuracy is a mistake. It is a waste of time and barrel life.
Back to top.


How do I clean my new Shilen barrel?
As with break-in and using coated bullets, you will find many diverse opinions on this subject.
EQUIPMENT: Cleaning Rods: Use a good quality coated cleaning rod with a rotating handle. The rotating handle allows the brush or patch to follow the lands and grooves. A non rotating handle forces the brush bristles to jump over the lands and grooves instead of following them.
BRUSHES: Use a good brass or bronze brush with a looped end. Do not use a brush with a sharp, pointed end.
SOLVENTS:
Every shooting product manufacturer has their own miracle solvent, and most do the job as advertised.
BORE GUIDES: Highly recommended!
PATCHES: Flannel or cotton patches work the best. Either trim or fold your patch to insure that it will fit snugly into the bore, but not so tightly you have to force it. Forcing a patch causes the rod to flex inside the bore of the rifle. If you are using a coated rod, this usually won't hurt anything, but the uncoated stainless steel rods that some shooters use can batter against the inside of the bore and damage rifling.
PROCEDURE: Once again, many different procedures abound. All accomplish basically the same thing. Here's ours: With the bore guide and the brass brush on the cleaning rod, apply the solvent to the brush by dipping it in the bottle or squirting a few drops on the brush. Slide the bore guide up over the brush and insert the bore guide into the chamber with a twisting motion. Push the brush through the barrel until it comes out the end of the muzzle. Now pull the brush back into the chamber guide. This is one "cycle". Make one cycle for each bullet fired, then apply more solvent to the brush and repeat this procedure. Now, fold or cut the patch for a snug, not tight, fit. Push the the first patch all the way through the bore and out the muzzle. As you draw the rod back, the patch should fall off. Put on another patch and push it towards the muzzle until you can feel it touch your finger placed over the muzzle. Then draw the patch back to the chamber and push it once more out the end of the muzzle so that it drops off. Repeat this with one more patch and you are finished. If you are through shooting for the day, lightly wet a patch with a light viscosity machine oil to prevent or retard rust. Push this patch through the bore. Let it drop out the muzzle, and you are done.
Back to top.


How clean is clean?
We get this question many times and have a great deal of difficulty helping some customers understand that a rifle barrel does not have to be spotless to shoot great. Many times more harm than good is done in trying to get it that way. Picture a car's fender. If the fender has a small dent in it, then professional application of body putty fills the dent. When painted over, the dent becomes unnoticeable, and the surface of the fender is smooth and consistent. The same thing happens in a rifle barrel on a microscopic level. Removing this small trace of copper puts you right back to square one. The next bullet that crosses that area will, again, leave a small trace of copper. Similar to patching a pothole. All successful benchrest shooters shoot one or more "fouler" shots down the barrel before going to the record target. This is not to warm up the barrel. They are resurfacing it on the inside. Benchrest shooters clean between relays to get the powder fowling out, not the copper. However, since copper usually comes out with the powder, they know that it must be replaced to get "back in the groove". I've had shooters tell me they "cleaned their rifle for 3 hours to get all the copper out of it." Their next statement is almost invariably that they had to shoot 4-5 rounds through it just to get it back to "shooting" again. This tells me that in order for the rifle to shoot well again, they had to replace the copper they worked so diligently to remove. I have a 7x08 Improved that shoots the same 1/2" MOA after 15 minutes of cleaning or 3 hours of scrubbing and de-coppering. Personally, I prefer shooting to cleaning. The gist of this is to set a regular cleaning regimen and stay with it. If the accuracy of the rifle is acceptable with a 15 min. cleaning, why clean longer? I would much rather have people admiring the groups I shot than marveling at how clean my barrel looks on the inside.

http://www.shilen.com/faq.html#question10
"I expect perdition, I always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damned disease." ~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo

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Fatman

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Re: Breaking in the new PIF
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2008, 03:44:53 PM »
Fatman

I have to admit to being a guy who had the old man drill into my head over and over again "use the best tools", "do it right or don't do it at all", "buy quality buy quality". If you were exposed to this crap for the better part of 20 years you would turn out like me. So I plead to being a total nut case when it comes to stuff like this.

The JP bore guide is a really fine piece of machining. And once you start working on your AR you will see why you want a bore guide in cleaning. One piece carbon fiber cleaning rods seem to be state of the art in rods. Jags are better than the eye loop thingys. I go to a gunshow and there is a guy pitching Butchs Bore Shine. Yep, I says, GIVE ME A QUART ! I went back to Hoppes when I opened the bottle and used some. DAMM IT NEARLY PEALED MY SHOE POLISH OFF ! That stuff is powerful. If I had more guts I might use it. There is though lots of great cleaning product out there. I bought and used the Tubbs system on my competition AR. I can understand the concept (nearly like hand lapping) and I will swear that I could feel the bore becoming smoother while I pushed the cleaning patches thru the barrel  ! Yup its expensive but the way I view it is my kids don't  really need to eat 3 meals a day anyway !

Here is what cinched the deal for me. Lilja builds some of the best barrels in the world. Take a look at the video on their home page of a new Remington 700 barrel vs a  Lilja hand lapped barrel. Nothing like pictures to scare me into spending more money !!!

http://www.riflebarrels.com/

Good luck on the break in and tell us how she shoots...

Yeah, I'm in the same boat with tools.  I've found over the years properly caring for anything pays off in the long run. I'm used to cleaning pistols, my rods are carbon, and I use jags. The loop is definitely not effective. Years ago I found what I arguably consider the best patches I'd ever used - U.S. Arsenal patches.  They have a ribs embossed into a cotton weave patch, and worked quickly and effectively.  Gotta search and see if they have a smaller diameter more suitable for .223 as opposed to the 2" ones I have for the .45s .
Anti: I think some of you gentleman would choose to apply a gun shaped remedy to any problem or potential problem that presented itself? Your reverance (sic) for firearms is maintained with an almost religious zeal. The mind boggles! it really does...

Me: Naw, we just apply a gun-shaped remedy to those extreme life threatening situations that call for it. All the less urgent problems we're willing to discuss.

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Re: Breaking in the new PIF
« Reply #15 on: Today at 03:52:27 AM »

Hazcat

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Re: Breaking in the new PIF
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2008, 04:27:03 PM »
Barrel break-in is BS.  Period.
All tipoes and misspelings are copi-righted.  Pleeze do not reuse without ritten persimmons  :D

tombogan03884

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Re: Breaking in the new PIF
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2008, 04:32:47 PM »
Yeah, I'm in the same boat with tools.  I've found over the years properly caring for anything pays off in the long run. I'm used to cleaning pistols, my rods are carbon, and I use jags. The loop is definitely not effective. Years ago I found what I arguably consider the best patches I'd ever used - U.S. Arsenal patches.  They have a ribs embossed into a cotton weave patch, and worked quickly and effectively.  Gotta search and see if they have a smaller diameter more suitable for .223 as opposed to the 2" ones I have for the .45s .



Got to agree, The "old Man" always taught me that paying top dollar for the best tool was cheaper in the long run than paying bargain prices for cheap ones over and over. As for your parents etc. doesn't it just amaze you that the older you get, the smarter they get  ;D




Barrel break-in is BS.  Period.




Not really. It depends on what you want to use the rifle for. Hunting , plinking etc. no need to break it in as that will happen with time, but if you want to shoot teeny tiny little groups or real long range it's a must.

Big Frank

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Re: Breaking in the new PIF
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2008, 12:25:57 AM »
On a chrome-lined bore I think any break-in is BS. Honing or Tubb's FinalFinish Bore Conditioning System may help but I doubt anything else will. As for the direct impingement system, it makes the action dirtier but not the bore as far as I can see.
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tombogan03884

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Re: Breaking in the new PIF
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2008, 11:42:39 AM »
On a chrome-lined bore I think any break-in is BS. Honing or Tubb's FinalFinish Bore Conditioning System may help but I doubt anything else will. As for the direct impingement system, it makes the action dirtier but not the bore as far as I can see.

Yes, but the action is where all the little fiddly parts are that make it a pain to clean.

Hazcat

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Re: Breaking in the new PIF
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2008, 11:46:24 AM »
Yes, but the action is where all the little fiddly parts are that make it a pain to clean.

Is that a technical term?  ;)
All tipoes and misspelings are copi-righted.  Pleeze do not reuse without ritten persimmons  :D

 

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