Parallels

[MikeBjerum]

I try to be an observant guy, and I try to keep myself up to date on both current events and historical events.  However, from time to time I have one of those "duh" moments.  It happened the other day:  I was having coffee with some guys in their sixties and seventies (Korean and Viet Nam era vets), and they were talking about their experiences with the draft.  They compared notes on going to Sioux Falls or Minneapolis for their physicals, and many were put right on buses or trains and hauled virtually non-stop to Louisiana or other areas of the southeast for basic training.  Others were allowed to leave and either called up to report later or never called again.

Last year we were in Washington DC and visited the Holocaust Museum and expand my knowledge of what happened.  I have thought over recent days the parallel between the way citizens were herded onto trains and sent through the system and how our military herds inductees.

Two questions come to my mind:

1.  How many parallels can you think of in our world between things we do now and things of the past (especially bad from the past);

2.  How do we react when we spot similarities like I stated above?

[Pathfinder]

OK, I'll go first.

The interstate system devised by Eisenhower was based on the Nazi's autobahn.
The anti's gun control MO is based on teh Nazi's use of the Weimar Republic's registration system
The PC crowd's victimization and use of "control" words is based on the Nazi's use of victimization ("poor us in Germany, we're being picked on") and control words to demonize people (then - Jews and gypsies and homosexuals; now - smokers, fat people, gun owners)
Goebbel's "tell a lie often enough and it becomes a truth" is standard MO for most of the libs

As for reaction, check out the other threads on "when is it time" or Thresholds - and remember, this is a publically accessible forum.

Next

[1776 Rebel]

I was having coffee with some guys in their sixties and seventies (Korean and Viet Nam era vets), and they were talking about their experiences with the draft.  They compared notes on going to Sioux Falls or Minneapolis for their physicals, and many were put right on buses or trains and hauled virtually non-stop to Louisiana or other areas of the southeast for basic training.  Others were allowed to leave and either called up to report later or never called again.

I have to assume you are too young to remember the draft. There was a process. It started with registration (which  you should still have done at 18). There were letters sent, later lottery numbers were sent out, then lottery held...etc. All before physicals. I get the feeling you think this was some sort of cattle roundup. It wasn't and oh by the way America was at war and needed soilders. Too many of the youth of this nation were busy dropping acid and rolling in the mud at concerts to care. Hmmmm that sounds familiar....You can google WWII, Korean War and Vietnam for more info....

The interstate system devised by Eisenhower was based on the Nazi's autobahn.
The anti's gun control MO is based on teh Nazi's use of the Weimar Republic's registration system
The PC crowd's victimization and use of "control" words is based on the Nazi's use of victimization ("poor us in Germany, we're being picked on") and control words to demonize people (then - Jews and gypsies and homosexuals; now - smokers, fat people, gun owners)
Goebbel's "tell a lie often enough and it becomes a truth" is standard MO for most of the libs

As for reaction, check out the other threads on "when is it time" or Thresholds - and remember, this is a publically accessible forum.

Next

How about the autobahn being based on the ROMAN road system? Two thousand years earlier.

There is an awful lot of history before the Nazi's. In fact of a lot of German history before the Nazi's. Try European, Asian, Middle Eastern, African, hey even American history...etc.
You can find all sorts of parallels between any two cultures because we happen to share the same DNA. Folks all over and for all time pretty much behave the same way. Scum bags are scum bags and good folk are good folk. Doesn't matter where on the globe you point. It doesn't mean there is some grand cabal running the show.

As a start let's all read from the Code of Hammurabi...FOUR THOUSAND YEARS AGO....same problems, different society.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/CODE.HTM

Too many people think the world started in the 20th century on the shores of the Atlantic.

[MikeBjerum]

1776,

At age 50 I remember the draft.  I grew up with the draft going on, and figured I had it to look forward to.  However, as my 18th approached they ended the draft and registration.  When they brought registration back a few years later there were many that were over 18 that had to go and register.  However, I fall into a six month window of birthdates that never registered (legally).

I have explained this on here before, but when I was 18 it was hard to even get into the services.  I tested very high in mechanics and engineering.  After the pull-out there was a surplus of people like me to handle the basic maintenance, and there were no programs in place to help me get educated in engineering to come in at a level they were begging for.

I understand that we were at war, and these were not "cattle roundups," but stop and think about the faith in your leaders it takes to leave home in the morning for your physical and induction not knowing what the day will bring.  You travel over a hundred miles from home, are herded through a system, and some of you are marched to a train station, some are put on busses, and some are sent home either with an understanding you were not accepted or that you will be called at some point in the future.

One of the many things that comes to my mind with this thread is what do we think if two years from now our children are put into a Government service program at school like many have compared to Hitler during the election cycle;  What do we do if we start to see the Government tracking certain races like they did after Pearl Harbor; What do we do if we must start registering and licensing firearms like we do our cars; what do we do if ... ?

Have you seen things that parrallel other events in history?  So many have said it that I can't find the original, but it has been said "Those that can't (don't or won't) learn from history are doomed to live (relive, repeat or suffer) it."

[tombogan03884]

1776,

At age 50 I remember the draft.  I grew up with the draft going on, and figured I had it to look forward to.  However, as my 18th approached they ended the draft and registration.  When they brought registration back a few years later there were many that were over 18 that had to go and register.  However, I fall into a six month window of birthdates that never registered (legally).

I have explained this on here before, but when I was 18 it was hard to even get into the services.  I tested very high in mechanics and engineering.  After the pull-out there was a surplus of people like me to handle the basic maintenance, and there were no programs in place to help me get educated in engineering to come in at a level they were begging for.

I understand that we were at war, and these were not "cattle roundups," but stop and think about the faith in your leaders it takes to leave home in the morning for your physical and induction not knowing what the day will bring.  You travel over a hundred miles from home, are herded through a system, and some of you are marched to a train station, some are put on busses, and some are sent home either with an understanding you were not accepted or that you will be called at some point in the future.

One of the many things that comes to my mind with this thread is what do we think if two years from now our children are put into a Government service program at school like many have compared to Hitler during the election cycle;  What do we do if we start to see the Government tracking certain races like they did after Pearl Harbor; What do we do if we must start registering and licensing firearms like we do our cars; what do we do if ... ?

Have you seen things that parrallel other events in history?  So many have said it that I can't find the original, but it has been said "Those that can't (don't or won't) learn from history are doomed to live (relive, repeat or suffer) it."

George Santayana "Those who do not know the past are condemned to repeat it "

[Sponsor]

[Pathfinder]

I have to assume you are too young to remember the draft. There was a process. It started with registration (which  you should still have done at 18). There were letters sent, later lottery numbers were sent out, then lottery held...etc. All before physicals. I get the feeling you think this was some sort of cattle roundup. It wasn't and oh by the way America was at war and needed soilders. Too many of the youth of this nation were busy dropping acid and rolling in the mud at concerts to care. Hmmmm that sounds familiar....You can google WWII, Korean War and Vietnam for more info....

I too remember the draft, and I was a participant in the lottery the first year it ran - only ran about 5 years IIRC. Had a high draft number (261) so I never had to do the cattle call thing.

How about the autobahn being based on the ROMAN road system? Two thousand years earlier.

There is an awful lot of history before the Nazi's. In fact of a lot of German history before the Nazi's. Try European, Asian, Middle Eastern, African, hey even American history...etc.
You can find all sorts of parallels between any two cultures because we happen to share the same DNA. Folks all over and for all time pretty much behave the same way. Scum bags are scum bags and good folk are good folk. Doesn't matter where on the globe you point. It doesn't mean there is some grand cabal running the show.

As a start let's all read from the Code of Hammurabi...FOUR THOUSAND YEARS AGO....same problems, different society.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/CODE.HTM

Too many people think the world started in the 20th century on the shores of the Atlantic.

As a former archeologist and an amateur historian, I am well aware of the role of many societies in forming this culture today. But there comes a time when you have to deal with facts. Eisenhower is quoted as directly attributing his idea for the interstate system on the autobahns in Germany. Did the Germans copy it from the Romans? Or the Greeks or the Nazca lines, or maybe from the linear motifs on the Shang Dynasty bronzes. Doesn't really matter - Eisenhower is on record as crediting his idea to the German system he personally witnessed.

As the song says - everything old is new again.

One thing that troubles me, 1776, is that at a point in our history where we must be vigilant, where there is evidence that we could be being manipulated, you actually say things like "It doesn't mean there is some grand cabal running the show." Truth is, we may never have definitive, stand up in court proof until (a) it's too late or (b) we successfully thwart the efforts without even realizing who or where. If the British officer had killed Hitler in the 30's things would have been very different. But he did not, and we now see clearly the evil he brought to this world.

To battle evil, you must first acknolwedge that it exists.

Occam's Razor would seem to indicate you are right, there are lots of reasons why we are as a country where we are. But the recent election, along with the continued bailouts, tells informed people that something is seriously wrong in this country. Can it be explained through simple venality? Possibly. But so many things have progressed so far down a specific path, then other options must be considered. As a scientist, I go where the facts lead me, not where my preconceived notions would have me go.

[tombogan03884]

I too remember the draft, and I was a participant in the lottery the first year it ran - only ran about 5 years IIRC. Had a high draft number (261) so I never had to do the cattle call thing.

As a former archeologist and an amateur historian, I am well aware of the role of many societies in forming this culture today. But there comes a time when you have to deal with facts. Eisenhower is quoted as directly attributing his idea for the interstate system on the autobahns in Germany. Did the Germans copy it from the Romans? Or the Greeks or the Nazca lines, or maybe from the linear motifs on the Shang Dynasty bronzes. Doesn't really matter - Eisenhower is on record as crediting his idea to the German system he personally witnessed.

As the song says - everything old is new again.

One thing that troubles me, 1776, is that at a point in our history where we must be vigilant, where there is evidence that we could be being manipulated, you actually say things like "It doesn't mean there is some grand cabal running the show." Truth is, we may never have definitive, stand up in court proof until (a) it's too late or (b) we successfully thwart the efforts without even realizing who or where. If the British officer had killed Hitler in the 30's things would have been very different. But he did not, and we now see clearly the evil he brought to this world.

To battle evil, you must first acknolwedge that it exists.

Occam's Razor would seem to indicate you are right, there are lots of reasons why we are as a country where we are. But the recent election, along with the continued bailouts, tells informed people that something is seriously wrong in this country. Can it be explained through simple venality? Possibly. But so many things have progressed so far down a specific path, then other options must be considered. As a scientist, I go where the facts lead me, not where my preconceived notions would have me go.


Venality or plot is really irrelevant, the cure is the same in either case, the current crop of "public servants" must be let go for poor job performance and a new set found . Job requirements, Knowledge of history, emphasis on American Civics,work experience in the REAL world, Integrity. Lawyers need not apply.

[runstowin]

The same government system that is oppressing us is educating most of our children( mine is of course an exception).

[twyacht]

"It is customary for republican governments to be bound by constitutions, and this is grand idea. The question does arise, however, about what recourse the citizen has when the government disregards its own constitution, as is the case with our own Tenth Amendment. What do you do if your government does not obey its own laws? Our Declaration declaims that when governments do not observe the God-given rights of man, it is not only the right but the duty of the people to alter or abolish them. The Declaration of Independence may not be the supreme law of the land - which is the Constitution - but it frames our philosophy of government and serves as a guide for those who respect our traditions. More people should."
Col. Jeff Cooper

Last three words were ignored in Nov. and the ramifications will be subtle at first, just as history has shown. Until the power of the citizenry (except for a few), has been rendered impotent and dependant on gov't.

"You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
Charles Austin Beard, American Historian, 1874-1948

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
Thomas Jefferson