Why Not SERPA?

[Rob Pincus]

jf,

Scroll back and read my original response.... in it I describe how you could end up with your finger even with the trigger when you draw..... but, by design, your finger is "above" the trigger aligned with the frame.

-RJP

[jimbob_texas]

I helped teach a class this weekend - intro to competition shooting, and sure enough, a student showed up with a Serpa holster.  I didn't say a word about it, but watched for a while, and asked what he thought of it.  My observation was that he used the flat of his index finger to activate the switch, and typically kept his finger along the frame.  I asked him what he thought about it, and he professed that he didn't care for it much, but it was cheap and in stock.  He had plans to replace it.  When I asked what he didn't like about it, it was the fact that his index finger came into play before he could draw.  He also gave himself a wedgie a couple of times when it didn't activate.

No shooters were harmed in the making of this testimonial.   

[SigShooter]

I helped teach a class this weekend - intro to competition shooting, and sure enough, a student showed up with a Serpa holster.  I didn't say a word about it, but watched for a while, and asked what he thought of it.  My observation was that he used the flat of his index finger to activate the switch, and typically kept his finger along the frame.  I asked him what he thought about it, and he professed that he didn't care for it much, but it was cheap and in stock.  He had plans to replace it.  When I asked what he didn't like about it, it was the fact that his index finger came into play before he could draw.  He also gave himself a wedgie a couple of times when it didn't activate.
No shooters were harmed in the making of this testimonial.   

The index finger coming into play is why it ends up on the frame above the trigger and not on it.

I've had some issues with the gun not coming out because I didn't press the release correctly due to an improper grip, so that's a training issue not an engineering flaw. No wedgies yet though.

[Fatman]

Well, a self-induced wedgie may get the BGs laughing so hard you need not worry about the draw.

[jimbob_texas]

The index finger coming into play is why it ends up on the frame above the trigger and not on it.

I've had some issues with the gun not coming out because I didn't press the release correctly due to an improper grip, so that's a training issue not an engineering flaw. No wedgies yet though.

 
You might want to scroll back a few posts.  We've traveled this path already.  I was merely reporting - you decide.  My opinion remains - the index finger being activated should be the last thing you do in the draw, not the first thing.

jr

[Sponsor]

[PegLeg45]

Well, a self-induced wedgie may get the BGs laughing so hard you need not worry about the draw.

Conjuring images of Barney Fife.     

[TSB]

Conjuring images of Barney Fife.     

Andy never gave Barney any bullets, ergo;  no AD possible!

[Fatman]

Andy never gave Barney any bullets, ergo;  no AD possible!

One bullet, I believe, but he kept it in his left breast pocket. Except for the escapee coming for Barney episode, where he had a fully loaded revolver. 

Can't remember what I had for breakfast, but useless stuff from the last century... 

[Kilroy]

This in from a state academy rule book on firearms training:
 
"SHOULDER HOLSTERS, CROSS DRAW HOLSTERS, AND HOLSTERS HAVING AN UNLOCKING DEVICE OPERATED BY THE TRIGGER FINGER, ARE PROHIBITED."
 
It is used to specifically exclude the Blackhawk Serpa holster from being used on their range.  As with many rules, it is based on incidents that have taken place on the range during training.  They observed that proper technique for this holster, finger pad used to operate the "finger activation platform," would degrade as the amount of shooter stress increased causing the finger tip to press on the platform and have a higher liklihood of causing the pistol to fire.  After having this happen, this academy did a Risk Management review which resulted in the rule.
 
Another report had a shooter get entrance/exit wounds in both thigh and calf while drawing from this holster.  The requirement after this incident was that the holster must be adjusted to a canted position, to allow rounds fired in the holster to miss the shooters body.
 
Blackhawk's television advertisement shows use of the finger pad, but their latest holster instructions do not mention specific technique.  On the Blackhawk sales training video, Chuck Buis of Blackhawk demonstrates proper technique, but is not specific as to technique. 
 
Most users of this holster won't be seeing that video, so it's up to firearms instructors to know about this and help where indicated.

Trainers working with governmental entities would do well to realize that training efforts may be monitored and affected by Risk Management offices.  In the instance mentioned above, statewide levels of government worked with a state government Risk Management office in making the determination to forbid the use of the holster.  The potential for an injury, once recognized, must be addressed.  Training absent due diligence to reduce the problem can result in a lack of insurance coverage for affected parties.  Most entities will look for the easiest way to reduce that risk.

The potential for the holster to pull the retention screws through and free of the belt slide or paddle, is another issue.

[Rob Pincus]

Kilroy,

Most users of this holster won't be seeing that video, so it's up to firearms instructors to know about this and help where indicated.

That is the trick to me.

Did they site any incidents of problems with cross draw or shoulder holsters or were they banned because they are harder for the  instructors to deal with safely?

The reason I ask is that I see the SERPA "safety problems" as an extension of that issue... instructors don't want to (or know how to)  teach or monitor its proper use, so they ban it.

-RJP