Author Topic: House Clearing - For the Concerned Parent  (Read 20956 times)

cooptire

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Re: House Clearing - For the Concerned Parent
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2009, 02:15:01 PM »
Sometimes your bad news is welcome, as in this case. It's another case of a really good idea getting mugged by the realities of cost.
 TAB, In my younger days I helped with several jobs rough remodeling and building, from the little I learned it's obvious that you REALLY know this stuff, and have probably run into about every sort of odd ball set up around, odd dimension Canadian lumber, nob and tube wiring, all sorts of things that the average home handy man book never thought of and the average person will not have run into. You should consider sitting down and posting a LONG thread of security improvements, and things to watch out for, methods of doing things. Stuff your profession has showed you that the rest of us don't know, but should.

Don't forget that someone may be starting a new home or a new major remodel and can incorporate these ideas into his project. Heck, I'm taking notes and making plans for the future home and that is one of those ideas that is going to be used. You could even use a spiral staircase to minimize wasted space for a second access to the other floor.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." Patrick Henry

TAB

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Re: House Clearing - For the Concerned Parent
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2009, 02:42:41 PM »
Spiral stair cases are joke... they look really cool, but thats about it.

Not to mention they cost $$$$. The sqft need to a normal stair case is not that much more of a spiral one. 
I always break all the clay pigeons,  some times its even with lead.

cooptire

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Re: House Clearing - For the Concerned Parent
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2009, 03:27:10 PM »
I know they are a lot harder to use than a normal stair. I was thinking that it would be something that could be stuck in the back of a closet or the like, more for emergency use than anything. Of course it probably be smarter to just have another real stairway. For the small little floor plan I am looking at, I just wonder if that is something that could be stuck in a closet in a corner somewhere. Probably not practical, just something that popped into my head.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." Patrick Henry

billt

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Re: House Clearing - For the Concerned Parent
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2009, 08:07:29 AM »
"House Clearing?"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCSC8BBOO_o&feature=channel_page

Sorry guys, but I couldn't resist. With the way things are going, a little laughter can benefit us all.  Bill T.

Thanos

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Re: House Clearing - For the Concerned Parent
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2009, 09:36:22 AM »
My room and our kids room are all upstairs so I am good there. If I hear a noise I am always wondering if it is my kids, a invader or my imagination. On the off chance I am wrong and I go down stairs and get caught up in something, we have a code word. All I have to do is say the word "Kimber" and my wife knows to come with the gun, and Shoot. I figure if I scream it, she will come and even if I call it out because someone is holding me hostage, they would think that I was just calling my wife who happens to be named Kimber.

I know, she could shoot me, but my concern is to get out the firing line anyway I can. I figure even if the intruder doesn't get hit by the first shot, and they get down to take cover, I am probably going to be free enough to grab and use Judo holds to keep them down. Their element of surprise is gone and I have a slight advantage of not having to worry about the person with the gun. And I saw Blade Runner when I was a kid...the eyes are the softest spot.  ;)

I get really worried about my kids, but they are all under 6 so they are not tall, I would always aim high just in case. I get most worried about encountering them and being on edge thinking they are the intruder.

One thing that I want to do after I buy a home is to set up IR cameras in my house and have it set so I can view it on my smart phone. Wake up, pick up phone, scroll through cameras, find the bad guy, hunt him down. It would also be really nice to have video evidence that they were in your house. (although if that evidence was not totally in your favor...) It would also be nice to know where your kids are. I know it sounds creepy to think of cameras in your home, but if you could have an eye in the other room in a tactical situation, it would be worth it. I think only my wife and I would know about it though.

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Re: House Clearing - For the Concerned Parent
« Reply #25 on: Today at 08:59:15 PM »

mmszbi

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Re: House Clearing - For the Concerned Parent
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2009, 11:16:14 AM »
Scary to think I might have to do this someday.....personally I consider myself lucky, the house we purchased has all bedrooms upstairs, and quite frankly, I have no desire to clear my house.  I simply will plant myself at top of steps, out of sight with good view down, and let em' know they can take thier chances coming up stairs in a loud voice while calling PD for assistance.  I have insurance for anything they may take or damage.
Meanwhile, wife is gathering all kids in our back room just in case.
An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a subject...which are YOU?

Frisco

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Re: House Clearing - For the Concerned Parent
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2009, 03:15:31 PM »
Our home has an audible, and silent alarm, as well as an 85lb female boxer with a crappy disposition.  So, I will have warning.

Our home is not large...about 2200 sq ft, and has 4 bedrooms.  The master, and my daughter's bedroom (along with the other two) are at the end of a LONG hallway.  The doorway to my daughter's room is at a 90-degree angle to my doorway.

The plan, at the sound of the alarm, is for me to grab my 3rd gen G17 with a LaserMax installed, a Surefire light attached, and a 17 round mag with a +2 extension sticking out the bottom from the nightstand, and gather my daughter and back into the master bedroom.  My wife, will be in the master bathroom, which is also at a 90-degree angle to the entry to our bedroom, and cannot be seen into from the bedroom doorway, with her duty pistol (Glock 17) and her Benelli.  Her Benelli and my M4 both reside in the bathroom...yes, they really do.  All other guns are in the safe except our HD guns.  She will cover our entry to the bedroom while she is on speakerphone to 911.  We have a landline and cell phone dedicated to master bedroom use only.  When I reach the bathroom with my daughter, I will arm myself with the M4, and relegate the Glock to my waistband in a clip on IWB (Yes it works in drawstring PJ bottoms, sweats, or gym shorts) 

Across from the master bathroom is a full-length mirror that is hard to see from the doorway to the bedroom, but is totally visible from the bathroom.  This way, we can see whomever comes into our bedroom from the hallway from cover and concealment in the bathroom.  Our master bathroom which is deep and long, opens into our walk-in closet.  This is where my daughter will be, hunkered down between 2 gun safes, under a blanket to guard against gunfire or flying debris.

My job will be to engage any threat, while my wife protects my six and more importantly, our daughter.

I fully expect my dog to have made her presence, and teeth known to anyone who would enter our home uninvited.  So, if they get past her...then I get my turn.

I am not going to clear the house after my daughter is safe with us.  I will wait for LE to arrive.  I am retired LE and my wife is current LE.  I will let the young fellers do the job.

As an aside...when we had our home built, I had a master light switch placed in our master bathroom.  I can, from that location, control all the lights inside and outside of my home.  I will make it very hard for an invader to hide in the shadows.

 ;D

God bless, and sincere thanks to all our fine people in uniform.  You pay for our freedom, and for that we owe you all we can give you.  Thank you.

ericire12

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Re: House Clearing - For the Concerned Parent
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2009, 03:21:40 PM »
Frisco,

You need to get a 33 rd mag for that Glock!
Everything I needed to learn in life I learned from Country Music.

Frisco

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Re: House Clearing - For the Concerned Parent
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2009, 03:34:05 PM »
Frisco,

You need to get a 33 rd mag for that Glock!

I have about 4 of them...but holstering it when I get back to the bathroom makes it awkward.  20 rounds on board is plenty of BOOM BOOM for the 5 seconds or so that I will be moving between my room and getting my daughter back into our bedroom.

I have run through the drill with my M4 in hand as well...but, all in all, it is more efficient to use the Glock in my weak hand while I gather the midget, and move from her room to our room.  I figure I will be carrying her, as she doesn't come to full wakefullness, and readiness to motivate on her own very easily.  Thus, I had to make the decision that fit best all the way around.

And, as I mentioned before, I expect my dog to delay anyone entering our hallway long enough to get her safely to our room where the big boomers are located.



God bless, and sincere thanks to all our fine people in uniform.  You pay for our freedom, and for that we owe you all we can give you.  Thank you.

Pathfinder

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Re: House Clearing - For the Concerned Parent
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2009, 08:00:57 PM »
Gabe Suarez had an interesting bit on house fighting yesterday in his newsletter. I couldn't find it on his website, so bear with me, it is long-ish but quite good at specifying the different tactics you might have to use.

Fighting In Your House

Fighting in houses...or fighting in your house can take on many forms depending on your mission. Having clarity of mission is essential so you know how to comport yourself in each event. I want to be very clear that this is one of the most dangerous activities that a homeowner may encounter.

Sadly, most training out there is limited to the police application, which I call "hunt the burglar".  This has very little in common with much of what you may need to do if you are not in that line of work.

Basing our focus on the armed civilian CCW operator we can identify several possible mission profiles and tactical skills needed for fighting in houses.

1). Holding Ground. This is the most common home defense type scenario. Think of the classic scenario where a homeowner is awaken by a strange sound indicating a break in.  They barricade themselves in the bedroom with the old double barreled shotgun, issue the classic warning, "I have a gun" and then call the police. We hear stories like this all the time. 

The homeowner has no pressing need to enter the fight or go in search of the threat so he simply takes up a position of advantage, using as much cover and concealment as a bedroom will allow. He points his muzzle at the bedroom door chanelizing the avenue of approach of the bad guy and waits in ambush. When the bad guy forces his way into the bedroom, a "warning" may or may not be given depending on the tactical situation and the region.

For this very elementary event there is little need for any skills at all other than pointing the weapon and having the will to fire it at the home invader.  They do however, need to have a weapon in the first place.

While many CCW folks advise this as what you always need to do, it is a very limited application.  Will you do this if the rest of your family is still out there at the mercy of the home invader?  Of course not.

2). Taking Ground.  This is a bit more involved and far more physically and mentally demanding.  This basically involves attacking the attackers. An example may be, as we mentioned earlier, the rescue of family members about to be victimized. The police parallel is a hostage rescue.

Think of the previous scenario except the homeowner is awakened by the sound of glass breaking, their child's terrified screams in a bedroom across the house are suddenly muffled and they hear a stranger's voice telling them to shut up.

This is hardly the time to hide under the bed with a shotgun is it?

This situation requires moving rapidly and stealthily directly to the threat.  The mission is not to stay safe, it is to go to the fight.  The mission is to close on the bad guys and shoot them to the ground with surgical close range gunfire. The urgency of the situation probably proscribes any negotiation, warnings, or attempt to deescalate the situation. The bad guys are located, closed upon, and shot down in order to save the innocents they are victimizing.

A similar situation is presented in an active shooter event where you have elected to stay and fight rather than run away.  And before you discount this, there are plenty of reasons to do just that if family members or others for whom you are responsible are still in the danger area. You are not going to abandon your kids at Trolley Square or the Tacoma Mall and run for your life are you?

3). Traversing Through. Traversing involves traveling through a contested or conflict area where there may be active armed bad guys. The mission is not to engage them, but rather to escape them. But understand, getting shot in the back is no way to escape.  The operator (s) and their protectees move rapidly through and out, free of the threat area, but ready to engage any threats that may appear or impede their exit.

Think of the active shooter event where there are multiple shooters but their immediate whereabouts are not certain.  All you know is that the current place is not safe and that remaining there is not a good idea.  You need to escape but running into one or more of them on the way out is a very real possibility.

There is no time to clear or search. You move quickly as before, giving cursory attention to danger areas with eyes and muzzles on the approach and egress, but no attempt would be made to "clear them" or search them.  As soon as a danger area is passed, it is abandoned as new danger areas appear. The goal is to escape...but in a strong and controlled manner ready to convert escape into attack if necessary.

4). Search and Clear. This is an area of study that is often the basis of many "shoothouse" training events. It involves moving cautiously and deliberately through an area in direct search for an adversary that is presumably hidden or unaware of the good guy's presence. It is basically an indoor manhunt.

Most people have no idea how strenuous this is both physically and mentally, nor how dangerous it is when done alone.  A typical 3000 square foot house for example might take the better part of an hour to search correctly by a team of three.  And by search I mean doing it right, not simply turning the lights on and peeking into a room then declaring it clear.

All of these require a thorough understanding of the nature of architectural features commonly found in modern buildings such as corners, hallways, doors, stairs, etc., and how to negotiate them at various speeds.  You would also need the ability to identify danger areas and potential threats, and the ability to mold your fighting platform to the environment at hand. As well, you need a clear understanding of what your mission is at any given moment as well as the fact that things can change quickly from one mission profile to another.

A lot of the choices you make will depend on how much information you have. This is not the time to be thinking about liability and stuff like that. If you do, you'll lose.

For these events, a shotgun would not be a first choice at all.  Rather something short, light, handy and with lots and lots of ammunition would be preferred.  Something like a Glock or Beretta with a 20+ capacity magazine, or even an SBR'd UZI semi auto.

Consider these situations

1.   You wake up at 3:00 AM because you heard something. You are not certain enough to go back to sleep but not certain enough to call 911.
2.   
3.   The noise that wakes you up is much more pronounced than in #1. Still not confirmed "human" but definitely something is not right.
4.   
5.   You wake up to the sound of glass breaking and swearing. You live alone.
6.   
7.   You wake up at 3:00 AM because you heard your kid scream across the house. His or her scream was followed by a male voice telling them to shut up.
8.   
9.   You are at church and your kids are across the on the other side of the church at youth ministry. You hear gun shots coming from that direction, people screaming and running away from the sound.
10.   
11.   You and your protectees are inside a building where bad things are happening. Your current location is untenable and you must leave but expect to encounter resistance as part of the escape.
12.   
While each event is similar, the dynamics of the fight are different and each one requires different tactics, and will probably have different assets available in terms of weapons .  Think about this now and how you might handle each one of these problems.  Think also about what skills you might need to make your time in the fight safer for you and more dangerous for the bad guys.

Gabe Suarez

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.




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