Mini 14 or SU 16?

[1776 Rebel]

Billt,

If you go to Kel-Tec's website and their FAQ section about midway down the page, you'll find this:

Q :    What is the expected life of a Kel-Tec firearm
A :    All Kel-Tec firearms have an expected life of 6,000 rounds or more

Again, I like these products I have always spoken well of Kel-Tec and even owned them and carried them, but this has to be taken into account when purchasing a rifle depending on the reasons for buying the gun.

Wheelgun

Anyone call Kel Tec to better explain the answer? I suspect that they are setting a MINIMUM. That is why they use the words OR MORE. If you are shooting any firearm, accuracy will decrease with the number of rounds thru the barrel. Speak to any highpower competitor. Six to ten thousand rounds sounds right to me. I don't think they meant that the entire rifle will somehow self destruct.

[tombogan03884]

True enough, but the AK is rated for about 60,000, or 10 times as much, and that's for the full auto.

[1776 Rebel]

Tom can you better define what 'rated' means. Does it refer to accuracy or parts failure or what? tks...

UPDATE:

I just called up Kel Tec (hell I got nothing else to do  ) and spoke to a supervisor at Customer Service. He said that the statement about lifetime reflected the following:

Their experience with primarily handguns.
That it was of course dependent on the ammo shot.
And finally that it was an advisory to the customers that minor parts may need replacement like recoil springs.


Also 6000 rounds represents about 300 boxes of ammo. At 7 bucks a box from Midway for Prvi Partizan FMJ that is about 2100 bucks worth of ammo (about 4x the cost of the gun). Hell if I am spending that much on ammo, 20 bucks on a recoil spring is pretty minor. Heck I just might buy a second SU16 to cannibalize.

[ericire12]

I also read that ther Kel Tec don't like aluminum or steel cased ammo.  How is the Ruger in this respect?

The "Hurricane Security" aspect is a very small point for me.  I went through "Charlie" with just a revolver and never needed to pull it.  Odds of actually having a fire fight in Charlotte County was very low and even with population increase, I still see it as such.  I'd say the rifle I choose will be used at the range 99.5% of the time with a .5% for home defense.

I think I should add this to the mix.

Which is easier to clean?

Thats what people in New Orleans said before Katrina...... Then, it was a great comfort for those who stayed.... dont really know of any documented cases of "get off my property" shoot outs

[ericire12]

If you can't get both, I vote for the SU-16. How cool is it to have a carbine that folds in half and takes the same (mostly) inexpensive mags as an AR-15. Better yet get the PLR-16 pistol instead. 

+1

If you really want compact size go with one of the .223 pistols -- bushmaster makes them too
http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_carbon15_AZ-C15P21S.asp

Q: can you put a shoulder stock on those bushmaster pistols?

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

Tom can you better define what 'rated' means. Does it refer to accuracy or parts failure or what? tks...

UPDATE:

I just called up Kel Tec (hell I got nothing else to do  ) and spoke to a supervisor at Customer Service. He said that the statement about lifetime reflected the following:

Their experience with primarily handguns.
That it was of course dependent on the ammo shot.
And finally that it was an advisory to the customers that minor parts may need replacement like recoil springs.


Also 6000 rounds represents about 300 boxes of ammo. At 7 bucks a box from Midway for Prvi Partizan FMJ that is about 2100 bucks worth of ammo (about 4x the cost of the gun). Hell if I am spending that much on ammo, 20 bucks on a recoil spring is pretty minor. Heck I just might buy a second SU16 to cannibalize.

Barrel wear.

[Ulmus]

Thats what people in New Orleans said before Katrina...... Then, it was a great comfort for those who stayed.... dont really know of any documented cases of "get off my property" shoot outs

Charlie, a cat 4 hurricane went through Charlotte county 1 year before Katrina went through New Orleans.  The "mid point" police station was destroyed along with a good 50% of the affected area.  (90% of the area was damaged in some way.)  You can sometimes see the huuricane hit on "Storm Stories" on the Weather Channel.

FEMA came in three days later and in the time between, people actually helped each other out!  Yes there was some looting, but nothing near the Katrina scope.  I'd hasve to say we were without power for roughly one month.  Many people had generators by that time.  (This is when you really realize how dependant on oil we are!)

There was a "FEMA camp" built and the crime in that camp was much higher percentage wise than the rest of the county.  But there were no roving bands of looters and the police actually did do their job of maintaining order in the county with the help of the national guard.

I spent my days cleaning up the (I don't even know how to put it correctly.) (Wow) total annialation of what used to be a mobile home/ retirment village that I work for.  Out of roughly 450 mobile homes, 300 were completely destroyed!  All of those remaining had damage of one sort or another.  And after every day, I'd come home and see it was never broken into and looted.

And that is why I felt secure with having just a revolver.

That is also why I have just a "slight nod" towards another hurricane defense scenario.

The people here will work together for the common good.

Its a mindset you will rarely see in a large city, because of population size and the mentality that comes with it.

In a smallish suburban area you have the physical room to breath and keep your privacy.  In a heavy urban environment, people will put up mental "fences" so they have some semblence of privacy.  That is where the "None of my business" attitude comes from and why so many walked passed that homeless guy in D.C. and allowed him to die.  Now I did see some major shifts in this after 9-11.  When the power went down in NYC and all the people walked home enmass.  That was impressive.  No looting and no panicing.    It almost gives you hope for common decency.

Anyway, I've been through my Katrina disaster here in Port Charlotte and know what the general population will do in that stressful time.  (For the most part.)  I do have a shotgun and the lucky 30-30 if I need them for defense.  That is why I would like either of these two rifles.  (I am definitely leaning towards the Mini 14 at this point.)  I know my area and I know my limits when it comes to shooting.  This rifle will be a range plinker like all the rest of my guns.

[1776 Rebel]

Ran across a neat review of the SU16 for survival purposes. The overall was pretty positive.

http://www.equipped.com/Kel-Tec_SU-16_Review.htm

[mward58]

Mini 14. Much more versatile with configurations and more durable. I had a sub 2000 9mm and it was neat to have a 33 rd mag but the novelty wore off and it became just a plastic black gun to me. Also now I like to buy guns that appreciate in value rather than depreciate quickly. Traded it for a down payment on a Smith 18-3.

[MAUSERMAN]

I would never stake my life on a SU16. I have a friend who's Su16 gave him face full of hurt when the gun crackes after a 120 rounds at the range.  After his visit to the hospital we cut the gun into pieces and mailed it back Kel tec with the bill.
MINI 14 hands down.