Roll of honor and roll of shame

[tombogan03884]

First the DISagreement,
1) Oswald was qualified as an EXPERT rifleman, at less than 100 yards, YES he was that good. Did he do it ? We will never know for sure, probably not.
2) The current problems in America go back to FDR, America's first effective socialist President. The entitlement packages he pushed through to (ineffectively) fight the depression did 3 things, it opened the door to the current dem policy of buying the moocher vote with hand outs, it started the rush toward Govt. interference in private business, and taking us off the gold standard left us with money that had no intrinsic value. These three things result in us having a current national debt that would have paid to run all the nations in the world in recorded history based on nothing but the belief that it will be paid off. This is biting us on the butt now with China sliding toward recession, and Putin telling the world not to buy American debt as they will lose their money.
As to your general conclusion, I agree, we're screwed. Within the next 12 years (probably much less) the system will break down under it's own weight. The life style that Americans are used to will be reduced  first to total anarchy in the more urban areas, but will level off at about where we were in the late 1800's. There will be those who have taken to the woods and continue to attempt to resurrect the Constitutional Republic, they will either succeed eventually , but at a much reduced level of prosperity or the dominant forces will hunt them down and kill them.
Around 2090 or 2100 things will begin to improve again, but in a form much different than today.

[Thanos]

I agree, we're screwed. Within the next 12 years (probably much less) the system will break down under it's own weight. The life style that Americans are used to will be reduced  first to total anarchy in the more urban areas, but will level off at about where we were in the late 1800's.

I have hope the system will be able to survive, but I don't think we will be where we were in the late 1800s. I can't think of a instance where technological innovation was lost totally from the stone age till now. (of course I could be wrong) also, those who are in the urban areas will fight it out, kill each other, starve and then head out to the rural areas...that will finish them off.

Then the Republic can be restarted on the same premise...only this time we are making a few clairifications to the Constitution.


I would add these to the Constitution as one amendment:

1.   There shall be a separation of Church and State to the effect the state may not stop any religious speech. The State many not promote any church, but a simple disclaimer printed near or on any display or on record as not being promoted by the state will suffice if religious symbols, words or ideals are presented anywhere where it may be confused with as State sponsored.
2.   Anyone elected official in government gets audited every year by both state and federal tax bodies. Any irregularities will be turned over to another state chosen at random for audit, federal would be turned over to a state that is currently controlled by a member of an opposite political party. All their spending and finances are public record and their bank statements are posted online for everyone to see in a financial recording similar to what is required of publicly traded companies.
3.   Any bill that has any spending in it must have the names of who proposed it and no reworking after a vote. Any new part must go through the entire process from the start.
4.   The entire US budget is graphed in an online pie chart that can be selected to view ALL aggregate data. All classified programs have to show all Congressional votes but need not be identified as what it entails.
5.   Presidents after their presidency are wards of the state and will be given a stipend equal to 75% of their pay as a president. They are not permitted to make or spend any money after office that is not given to them as a stipend. The same goes for Congress.
6.   Anyone found to influence lawmakers or elected officials decisions through bribery, extortion or collusion will be tried with a maximum of two appeals. If found guilty two out of three times, life imprisonment.
7.   Murder carries the death penalty; they will be tried with a maximum of two appeals. If found guilty two out of three times, executed in no more than 90 days. All crimes are treated as they were committed that morning, 50 year old cases are punished the same.
8.   Guns; everyone can own one except those who have been found guilty of a felony, violent crime, had the right legally removed or deemed mentally unfit. A panel of 9 nominated judges in each county will review every legal or medical recommendation for the removal of gun rights.
9.   Anyone committing any act against the United States while outside the territorial boarders of the United States will have the same rights and privileges of those in the country that the crime or planning of crime happened. (Example: If they commit an act of terror in Syria, they get Syrian rights.) The trials can take place anywhere.
10.   All Japanese prosecuted by the United States after WWII for water boarding are pardoned and reparations paid.
11.   Water boarding is a legal for of interrogation.
12.   It is not Cruel or Unusual if we think it is the right thing to do as punishment and use it on a regular basis.
13.   Concealed weapons can be carried by any adult who passes the current Utah requirements for a concealed weapon and the weapon can be carried anywhere.
14.   Fully automatic weapons can be regulated by a permit that cannot exceed ten percent of the first automatic gun cost. One permit is good for multiple guns. Permits must be obtained by Federal Agency similar to the BATF. The permit conditions are the same as those in 12. Silencers will have the same restrictions as they do now.
15.   No other regulation or tax can be placed on firearms above normal item sales tax without an Amendment to the Constitution with each citizen of the United States voting on it. All non voters will be considered opposed to any change.
16.   Rape is a punishable by the death penalty.
17.   Insanity or personal hardship is not an excuse and cannot be considered in a court of law. Exceptions can be made when safety or health or others was at risk. Insane people can be punished the same as all others. Mentally disabled requires a jury of 100 people to vote unanimously that the person fits the definition of mentally disabled by a medical board of three doctors and would not understand the concept of right and wrong at a level greater than a three year old.
18.   When minors turn 18 in jail, they will serve the rest of their sentence, required to finish High School and join the military or stay in prison for an additional ten years.
19.   Hard labor, never killed anyone and will be used by all prisons for all non-violent inmates. Escaping from a labor program will get a minimum of 3 years solitary confinement.
20.   If 30,000,000 people think that you are a jerk, they can petition to have your citizenship revoked and you deported to the country of your choice, which is not required to accept you. All petitions will require 30 million votes of living persons over the age or 18. A finger print must be provided and voting is anonymous.
21.   You can opt out of a Union and keep your money.
 

[Pathfinder]

First the DISagreement,
1) Oswald was qualified as an EXPERT rifleman, at less than 100 yards, YES he was that good. Did he do it ? We will never know for sure, probably not.
2) The current problems in America go back to FDR, America's first effective socialist President. The entitlement packages he pushed through to (ineffectively) fight the depression did 3 things, it opened the door to the current dem policy of buying the moocher vote with hand outs, it started the rush toward Govt. interference in private business, and taking us off the gold standard left us with money that had no intrinsic value. These three things result in us having a current national debt that would have paid to run all the nations in the world in recorded history based on nothing but the belief that it will be paid off. This is biting us on the butt now with China sliding toward recession, and Putin telling the world not to buy American debt as they will lose their money.
As to your general conclusion, I agree, we're screwed. Within the next 12 years (probably much less) the system will break down under it's own weight. The life style that Americans are used to will be reduced  first to total anarchy in the more urban areas, but will level off at about where we were in the late 1800's. There will be those who have taken to the woods and continue to attempt to resurrect the Constitutional Republic, they will either succeed eventually , but at a much reduced level of prosperity or the dominant forces will hunt them down and kill them.
Around 2090 or 2100 things will begin to improve again, but in a form much different than today.

Not to get off on a JFK rant, a range marksman at under a 100 yards is different than hitting a target like JFK presented on that day. But you're right, we will never know. That the way the Warren Commission buried the evidence is a strong indication that we will not be allowed to know - ever.

As for the countries problems, yes, FDR did - with his wife's strong help - do a great deal to damage the institutions of this country, no argument. His ability to even attempt to do what he did lies with Lincoln's abuses of the Constitution and strengthening of the Federal gummint at the expenses of the States' rights. Granted, the Southern states were not interested in "talking" and he didn't have a lot of choices. Still, he started the damage in a truly significant way.

My point was simply that a lesson was given to the Presidents after JFK not to deviate from "the plan".

Thanos, strike 10, 11, 14 and 20, and you have an interesting list. Reasons?
10 - old news
11 - too trivial and ignores other techniques
14 - abolish the BATFE (and all like it) and get the Feds out of something that ain't covered by the 10th Amendment
20 - the are way more than 30 million imbeciles in this country and stripping a person of ctizenry is a dangerous principle to start.

[Thanos]

10 - old news
11 - too trivial and ignores other techniques
14 - abolish the BATFE (and all like it) and get the Feds out of something that ain't covered by the 10th Amendment
20 - the are way more than 30 million imbeciles in this country and stripping a person of ctizenry is a dangerous principle to start.

10-because if we give them a pardon on it we can use it
11- we prosecuted Japanese after the war for it. So I don't think we should use it. Although if we pardon them, they we could! I am in favor of any tactic.
14- We have to have something that enforces the rules. Even if they are minor rules. Change the department, but someone has to be the police in issue like this.
20-if 30 million people can get together and kick someone out (Alec Baldwin, Barbara Streisand or Al Franken) I think we should be able to kick them out of the club.

[tombogan03884]

I can't think of a instance where technological innovation was lost totally from the stone age till now. (of course I could be wrong)



Europe after the "Fall of Rome"
No spending bills can be introduced with out a practical, detailed method of paying for it. Deficit spending is punishable by removal from office .
#6- Abuse of elected position should be punishable by death, once they have been elected we are pretty much supporting them for life anyway.
#14- The only regulation of suppressors will be by FDA as they are a hearing protection device.

[Sponsor]

[Thanos]

Europe after the "Fall of Rome"

What rechnology was lost? They didn't fall back into the stone age, they were not able to maintain their empire, but not a loss of technology. Did you mean by going back to the late 1800s as in social mindset or technological society?

#6- Abuse of elected position should be punishable by death, once they have been elected we are pretty much supporting them for life anyway.

Sounds a little harsh, I don't know if I would go with death. Being a screwup should be fatal, but I don't know if I could send someone to the electric chair for taking a bribe, life in prison I could do.

#14- The only regulation of suppressors will be by FDA as they are a hearing protection device.

I am a little hessitant on no regulation on these, maybe you have to have a concealed weapons licence for it. The reasoning is that they are something if very easy for anyone to get they can be used for crime very easily. So I would make them just slightly more regulated but no more regulation that anyone who passes a permit for a machine gun background check could get one. Not too difficult, but a little harder than a 22 pistol. I think with greater abilities it is not unreasonable to require greater responsibility, but it is not reasonable to make it impossible or outlaw completely.

I suppose it would be like gettting a motorycle endorsement for a driver's license. Anyone can get one, you just have to be responsible and every machine gun permit would have the silencer endorsement standard. (something like that)

[tombogan03884]

"What rechnology was lost? They didn't fall back into the stone age, they were not able to maintain their empire, but not a loss of technology. Did you mean by going back to the late 1800s as in social mindset or technological society?"

At the fall of the western Empire most learning was lost except that  preserved by the Catholic Church, and much of that was only preserved in the Irish Monasteries. Even weapons technology suffered, with things like the Catapult disappearing for hundreds of years from western warfare, Cities became deserted due to the interruption in travel caused by the breakdown in the road system. Even the entire "middleclass" disappeared from western Europe for several hundred years.
However I was thinking more along the lines of society, scattered small towns servicing Farms and Ranches that operated on home generated fuels, methane, wind, solar. Satellite comms would eventually fail due to no one being able to support a Space program, Many technologies would die as a result of inability to make or maintain components, Things like Personal computers will probably go as will CNC machinery with the loss of high tech industry. Basic premise is that while we probably will not lose IDEA's, or knowledge, it will be reduced to things people can make or repair on their own. As an example Ford automobiles may still be around but they will be a lot more like the Model A than the Thunderbird.

[PegLeg45]

Just received the same reply myself from Chambliss.   

Nah,  doesn't hack it.  Saxby bought political capital by not opposing the nomination, rather than standing up and being counted.

Exactly.......he sold his vote so he can use it as collateral in the future.
I have yet to hear from Isakson. He usually responds quickly when I write in.

Isn't this "Chamblis" character the one you guys were glad beat the Dem in a recount ? Just goes to show, members of BOTH major parties have lost sight of their purpose under the Constitution. We have not had a viable 3rd party candidate since Lincoln in 1860, maybe we should look into changing that for 2012.
By the way, was reading another blog today that mentioned that Micheal Steele, new head of the RNC was the only one of the 4 candidates who does not own at least one gun. 

Yes. We were glad he won because up until this point he was a strong supporter of 2A rights.
The main reason we all wanted him to win was to prevent a "super majority" in the senate for the Dems, causing the Rep's to loose filibuster powers.


You are absolutely correct in your assessment.

Sad, sad, sad..........

[Thanos]

However I was thinking more along the lines of society, scattered small towns servicing Farms and Ranches that operated on home generated fuels, methane, wind, solar. Satellite comms would eventually fail due to no one being able to support a Space program, Many technologies would die as a result of inability to make or maintain components, Things like Personal computers will probably go as will CNC machinery with the loss of high tech industry. Basic premise is that while we probably will not lose IDEA's, or knowledge, it will be reduced to things people can make or repair on their own. As an example Ford automobiles may still be around but they will be a lot more like the Model A than the Thunderbird.

I don't think that the High tech would be lost. With communication as fast as it is all over the world there would be segments of infrastructure that would survive and would allow the people in that area to continue to grow. I could go up to Boeing with a few buddies and we could still make a vehicle with the tools that would be up there even if everyone else in the world disappeared. Since knowledge can be stored so vastly in such small places it would be a short time in my opinion before other innovators started building again.

[tt11758]

Since knowledge can be stored so vastly in such small places it would be a short time in my opinion before other innovators started building again.

The only flaw in that logic is that building requires capital.