Author Topic: Can someone recommend a home defense 9mm round?  (Read 7223 times)

twyacht

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Re: Can someone recommend a home defense 9mm round?
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2009, 06:22:40 PM »
If it applies, some condo/apts.etc,... units are separated by a firewall/ burnwall, rated in hours. Some even have masonry in between units for noise and vibration.

Unless your an end unit, you could always ask the prop mgr. if the bldg. has burnwalls between units. They are thicker than standard sheetrock.

Rob Pincus has done a great job demonstrating different calibers and penetration issues in residential construction materials.
He's got a great DVD showing several examples, up to a 12g. shotgun rd. (Think it was #6 BirdShot) Lots of little balls at close range make a devastating wound, but not enough to over penetrate through and through the next room, etc,...

My "at home" SD round is a .357 Federal 110gr. JHP.  It has less flash than the 158gr. rds.... Lighter bullet, with good expansion.

Its still a .357. ;)  In Semi-Auto, there are several options. Remember bullets may fail to expand, but a .45 never shrinks. ::)



Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

MHarvey124

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Re: Can someone recommend a home defense 9mm round?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2009, 06:52:21 PM »
Yea I do live on an end unit so that helps a little bit but I've still got surrounding strips of townhouses almost on every side of my unit. I went and picked up some Speer Gold Dots at my local Gander Mountain. They were out of almost everything now. Figured it can't hurt to have something other than FMJ rounds.

Didn't hand cycle really well so I'm going to take a few rounds to the range sometime this week to check 'em out.

twyacht

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Re: Can someone recommend a home defense 9mm round?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2009, 07:14:21 PM »
quote,...
Didn't hand cycle really well so I'm going to take a few rounds to the range sometime this week to check 'em out.

Did you buy the M+P 9mm new?, range time with varied rounds should "loosen" things up. My Walther PPK/S .380 did not cycle Speer Gold Dots well at first after I bought it. Little fluff & buff and range time makes it like butter now.

Yet my M+P .40 will take whatever ammo is in the mag from day one.  My FN9 did not like Federal Hydra Shoks until I put 150-200 rds. shoot,clean, lube, repeat. Now it cycles everything.

BTW, I heard Gander Mountain, keyword MAY, be bought up by Bass Pro Shops/Outdoor World.

Let us know. Practice, practice, practice....The M+P is a great platform, you shouldn't have any "cycling" issues if you let her run at the range.
Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

jaybet

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Re: Can someone recommend a home defense 9mm round?
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2009, 07:39:34 PM »
In my day job I'm in construction. From contractor to arch/eng inspector to spec writer I've got about 30 years in now, and I know that a LOT of people don't know much about where they live. Your backstops can vary quite a bit.

Without patronizing anyone, most residential walls are made of wood or metal studs (vertical) with gypsum board spackled and sanded. THAT's all you get. If a bullet hits a stud there's a good chance it will stop. BUT... Most residential buildings have plywood on the outside of the studs, under the siding, but not all. I've seen many tract-built places that have gyp board inside, studs, FOAM, and vinyl siding. You could probably shoot a K-Mart toy arrow through a wall like that. They often put plywood on the corners, but a REALLY strong person or a guy on crack might be able to bust right through your wall if he didn't hit a stud. Of course, same with a bullet.

The good news with townehouses and condos is if they are in rows, most state building codes require fire walls between each unit. These are often concrete block walls which makes a pretty good backstop. But some use shaftwalls, which meet the code for fire separation, but basically it's a minimal frame with one to two inches of gyp board on each side....not a good backstop.

If you have older homes...many from the early 60's on back to the 30's, you probably have wood siding (often covered by vinyl or asbestos) and the sheathing beneath (where the plywood would be on a more modern building) is often old school 1X...7/8" thick lumber. The older houses werent' much on insulation, but they often have a harder gyp board or lath and plaster, which won't stop a bullet, but it will slow one down, espectially an expanding jacket, hollow point, or frangible. You've got a decent chance of not harming your neighbors in a structure like that if you don't hit it "WRONG"...the bullet will get stopped, deflected, or at least slowed down, so maybe it goes across the street and dents your neighbor's lawn jockey instead of blowing his head off.

From the 30's back you've probably got wood siding, 1" thick sheathing beneath, NO insulation, and lath with plaster that can be as much as an inch and a quarter thick. Same as the category above.

In our neighborhood we all watch out for each other(at least the locals do) and self-defense also means neighbor defense. Like MB says, you should plan your defensive positions based on your backdrops, and approach home defense from those positions. If you've got exposure problems though, think about the physics. You want to destroy enemy flesh and bone, but not friendlies...

In NJ if I shoot an armed father-raper in my home with hollow points, that is malicious intent and I might go to jail. I can OWN them and shoot them, but if I shoot a person with them, I'm being malicious by using the hollow point, even though it might stop in my wall instead of going across the street and killing my neighbor. So you have to size everything up.
If you can use them, hollow points will not penetrate building materials as far as hardball ammo will. Expanding jacket should also fatten out even more and slow down. OR...what we keep at home is soft point...just lead. It will certainly hurt the bad guy but maybe it will flatten out enough in the wall to fall harmless out in my front yard. There's always frangible too. I don't know how bad the penetration statistics are with frangible ammo, but it's got to at least HURT the hell out of the bad guy when you lay a few rounds into him.

The kind of planning and practice that Michael talks about all the time is the only way to minimize the risks, but many of us are forced by circumstance to use ammo that may not be considered the "best" defense ammo in the industry.
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MHarvey124

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Re: Can someone recommend a home defense 9mm round?
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2009, 07:50:08 PM »
twyacht: My MP9mm was bought brand new. I've had it for over a year now. I try to get to the range at least twice a month and usually run 50 rounds through it. It cycles perfectly fine with your standard FMJ (be it Federal, Remington, Winchester). Like I said, I definitely need to get the Speer Gold Dot to the range this week to see how it cycles during an actual live fire. Hand cycling the stuff wasn't too bad but I could definitely feel the tip of the bullet hitting the feed ramp. Still chambered though.

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Re: Can someone recommend a home defense 9mm round?
« Reply #15 on: Today at 04:00:20 AM »

Dharmaeye

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Re: Can someone recommend a home defense 9mm round?
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2009, 08:21:36 PM »
I find Remington Golden Saber 124gr +P works very well. Non +P is not that much slower.
Also this round is known to feed better than most HP

SigShooter

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Re: Can someone recommend a home defense 9mm round?
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2009, 08:51:49 PM »
I find Remington Golden Saber 124gr +P works very well. Non +P is not that much slower.
Also this round is known to feed better than most HP

It's also a reasonably accurate round in my experience. The version you're most likely to get your hands on is the regular, commerial version, as opposed to the law enforcement bonded offering. Only real difference is the ability to withstand penetration of auto glass and still work on target.

One the one hand, I like bonded bullets due to their ability to go through auto glass and hold up pretty well. This is handy when trying to defend yourself from a carjacking.

One the other hand, they're also supposed to go through drywall, especially rounds used by the FBI.

Does anyone know anything about Glaser Pow'rball ammo or the new Critical Defense ammo from Hornady (re: penetration of drywall)? I'm thinking those two might be better options than bonded bullets for apartments/condo/townhomes.
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Hottrockin

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Re: Can someone recommend a home defense 9mm round?
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2009, 04:40:59 AM »
Quote
Rob Pincus has done a great job demonstrating different calibers and penetration issues in residential construction materials.
He's got a great DVD showing several examples, up to a 12g. shotgun rd. (Think it was #6 BirdShot) Lots of little balls at close range make a devastating wound, but not enough to over penetrate through and through the next room, etc,...

On RJP's last demonstration he used a #9 shot.  He also tested the Glaser Safety Slug.  The DVD mentioned, "Combat Focus Shooting & Home Defense Tips" can be found here >>>  http://www.icestore.us/servlet/the-DVDs/Categories .
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