Gunman had permits...........Here it comes!!

[pioneer]

Most LEOs out there only have very basic firearms training, many only fire thier gun for qualifiying.  Here in CA at the age of 15 I  passed the CCW shooting test, blindfolded. 

TAB, can you cite a source for this information?  As a retired police firerms trainer, I'd like to take a look.   Most "civilian" concealed carriers who I know have a tactical, combat mind-set every time they strap on their gun, even though they have not had formal, advanced training. 

Can one legally have a CCW, or possess a handgun at age 15 in the Golden State?  

[TAB]

At that time the test was 20 rounds at 15 ft on a humen shaped torso, there was no time limit 15 of your shots had to hit the target.  Now its 15 rounds at 15 ft, 12 must hit the target.  Any where in teh black is fine. I'm sorry, but thats not a standard, thats a joke.  I have never head of anyone failing the "skills" test.  I'm sure its happend, but I honestly can't see it happening.

It was one of the bets my grandfather was known for making at the range, Just about every time we went to the range there was a new "sucker"  normally is was for a box of 22 shells( which back then were about a buck at the range)

[CDR]

At that time the test was 20 rounds at 15 ft on a humen shaped torso, there was no time limit 15 of your shots had to hit the target.  Now its 15 rounds at 15 ft, 12 must hit the target.

Using a mirror facing backwards?                 

[TAB]

What also really sucks, is by state law, you must take a class.  It has to be atleast 8 hours, but not longer then 16.  No where does it say what must be tuaght, infact all it really says is teh time limit, it should be for free or actual cost( if the SO is putting it on) and you must prove that you can safely handle a gun.   The shooitng test was just the DOJs way of "proving it"  What cracks me up is if you buy a hand gun, the safe handling demo, its actually alot harder, there is just no shooting. 

I'm all for people getting training before they can have a CCW, but the guy can stand there for 8 hours picking his but and it still counts. At the very least, the laws and basic gun safety needs to be tuagh.  Hopefully, there would be some basic ideas of SD, like pay attention to details and what to do if you find yourself in a robery( drawing is not always the best answer).   I'd also like them to talk about what happens afterwards.   

[Ping]

I do not agree that some of these people are homocidal maniacs. Some are normal people who snapped because they did not have the emotional support and loss of their jobs. I wonder what the statistics would have been during the Great Depression? People are scared, desperate and watching all that they have worked for disappear. Jobs are nil unless you go into food service. I have friends with Bachelors and Masters Degrees and cannot find anything. I thought about pursuing my Masters but it would not help me at this time and would put me further in debt.
All we can do is pray the economy turns around before more people lose their heads.

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

I don't, but many people out there think, "I have a gun, I can protect myself"   That simply is not ture.

Its not the tool, its the user.  I can let any one here use all my tools, have access to my shop,  What are the chances that they can produce they same quality of work I can?

While having access to the right tools, is very helpful, Training, mind set and skill set are by far more important.

True, but if you come HERE and work with the tools I have (the only carpentry tool I have is a camp ax) How much is your knowledge , training and mindset going to help you build a set of cabinets ?
You need both.

Some Ca. Counties allow you to get a carry permit at 16 but I don't think it is for CONCEALED carry;.

[TAB]

actually you can legally carry in CA at teh age of 12.  You just have to be hunting/ fishing.   Thats with no supervision.

[deamonpi]

Ping I'm not really interested in peoples excuses for going off the deep end, the only thing that matters is that they went off the deep end.  The why is only important to psychologists, for everyone else its irrelevant, and pointless to consider.

I don't have to know why what Jeffery Dahmer did is wrong to know that it was wrong.

[Ping]

I was not giving excuses. I guess I failed to mention that it would be best to be ready in any given situation to deal with another person/s violent episode and deal with it accordingly. I just hope that if something went wrong and some mad individual decides to start their own personal eradication of members of society that you and I would be in a position to take care of it. I am not talking about vigilantes either. I am talking about a trained civilian who is able to use discretion and deadly force if need be.

[deamonpi]

I do not agree that some of these people are homocidal maniacs. Some are normal people who snapped because they did not have the emotional support and loss of their jobs. I wonder what the statistics would have been during the Great Depression? People are scared, desperate and watching all that they have worked for disappear. Jobs are nil unless you go into food service.

This offering excuses for those who have cracked.