Guns and Guitars

[m25operator]

Heresy!!  Well, since you actually get paid to play, I guess I have no right to criticize your choice, Jay.  I, however, have a soft spot in my heart for all tube amps.  Even the hybrids with tube preamps don't compare in my opinion.  That warm tube tone,  (especially from a Marshall) just makes me feel all funny inside.  Team it up with a Gibson with PAFs and I feel as though I need to repent, or something.   Grin

Swoop

I am still trying to work my way into a tube amp,  Andy Summers said, all these pedals and computer aided systems are trying to reproduce what we got with tubes

Swoop, lets Jam.

[jaybet]

Heresy!!  Well, since you actually get paid to play, I guess I have no right to criticize your choice, Jay.  I, however, have a soft spot in my heart for all tube amps.  Even the hybrids with tube preamps don't compare in my opinion.  That warm tube tone,  (especially from a Marshall) just makes me feel all funny inside.  Team it up with a Gibson with PAFs and I feel as though I need to repent, or something.   Grin

Swoop

I am still trying to work my way into a tube amp,  Andy Summers said, all these pedals and computer aided systems are trying to reproduce what we got with tubes

Swoop, lets Jam.

Ok. I read an interview with Clapton about the solo in Sunshine of Your Love. About his sound in the solo he said he had two or three Fender Twins connected together, turned up to 10, and that's how he got the sound. Do you know how LOUD that would be at 120 watts each?
YES. .... Guys, get over it... I played a Fender Showman for years with 4- 12s....I worked for an Elvis impersonator with the thing....
All of the old timers tried everything that was coming out including all the pedals and overdrives, and THAT was the classic sound you hear on particular recordings. You also have to remember that a recording is a snapshot- some of my OWN  recorded stuff is awesome and it's hard to re-creat live. Sometime's I kick ass live over the studio version of songs...it's all performance, sound, and wha't s going on around you....not JUST the guitar.

I love the Police but Andy Summers played a lot of rythmn because Sting was the superstar. Andy Summers is not Clapton or SRV or even Leslie West (haven't seen HIS name on here yet. Saw him live....awesome!) Andy Summers is not Robin Trower he's not Dicky Betts, and he's not James Burton.
The new modeling amps sound and REACT like the originals. That's why it is quite a task to take a modeling amp and balance 4 sounds (4 stop foot pedal) in sound, volume, etc. so you can switch live and be right live without great big FARTS while you're trying to look like a pro and you don't have  a guitar roadie  that set everything up for you.  Oh, by the way....Clapton turned me on to electric guitar, but ....jeez....he has a guy walk out and hang a friggin guitar on his neck that has been setup, tweaked, tuned and polished....that's how he starts a show. The rest of us need help.
Day to day....if you take one of the new modeling amps and set it up next to the original tube amp you might hear a 5 % difference in tone, but you will get the same tone you want at a volume that isn't 90% of the db of a 44 magnum.  I love the tube sound but to get the grit and the compression you have to turn them up. And that means, even at a 30 watt amp, you need hearing protection. No matter how good the protection, it doesn't sound that great.

[SwoopSJ]

All of the old timers tried everything that was coming out including all the pedals and overdrives, and THAT was the classic sound you hear on particular recordings.

 Andy Summers is not Clapton or SRV or even Leslie West (haven't seen HIS name on here yet. Saw him live....awesome!) Andy Summers is not Robin Trower he's not Dicky Betts, and he's not James Burton.

Day to day....if you take one of the new modeling amps and set it up next to the original tube amp you might hear a 5 % difference in tone, but you will get the same tone you want at a volume that isn't 90% of the db of a 44 magnum.  I love the tube sound but to get the grit and the compression you have to turn them up.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, Jay.  I have nothing against using different pedals to achieve different sounds, a la Hendrix (guy tried darn near everything from what I've heard and read).  Honestly, I have nothing against modeling amps either, although I'll never buy one, I just wanted to bust your chops a bit.  I do, however, remain steadfast in my belief that no modeling amp can compare tonally to an over driven all tube setup, whether the overdrive is achieved by "cranking it up" or through the assistance of a box like the old Tube Screamer like SRV used, for instance.  Their is no real comparison in my opinion as the "modelers" are devoid of the warmth and subtle nuances of the real thing.  It's like a photocopy of a Rembrandt, its pretty and the colors are right, but you can't feel the brushstrokes.  By the way, have you tried using a Marshall Power Brake or anything similar.  I thought about getting one due to the volume issue you eluded to, but haven't been able to try one out yet.  As for Andy Summers, no he's not Clapton, SRV, or Dickey, but his point is valid.  You should know, look at most of the great blues men.  B.B. King, for example. I don't believe you can say he is a rhythm guitarist, nor could you argue anything about his tone sans pedals and effects.  On the other end of the spectrum is Pete Townsend, LOTS of effects and a rhythm player if their ever was one.  No hard feelings, man.  Just my opinion, which usually means it's not worth much.   

Swoop

   

[SwoopSJ]

Swoop, lets Jam.

Rock on!  All we need is groupies and a fog machine!  I'm sure, with both of us being shooters, we already have the laser show covered.   

Swoop

[jaybet]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, Jay.  I have nothing against using different pedals to achieve different sounds, a la Hendrix (guy tried darn near everything from what I've heard and read).  Honestly, I have nothing against modeling amps either, although I'll never buy one, I just wanted to bust your chops a bit.  I do, however, remain steadfast in my belief that no modeling amp can compare tonally to an over driven all tube setup, whether the overdrive is achieved by "cranking it up" or through the assistance of a box like the old Tube Screamer like SRV used, for instance.  Their is no real comparison in my opinion as the "modelers" are devoid of the warmth and subtle nuances of the real thing.  It's like a photocopy of a Rembrandt, its pretty and the colors are right, but you can't feel the brushstrokes.  By the way, have you tried using a Marshall Power Brake or anything similar.  I thought about getting one due to the volume issue you eluded to, but haven't been able to try one out yet.  As for Andy Summers, no he's not Clapton, SRV, or Dickey, but his point is valid.  You should know, look at most of the great blues men.  B.B. King, for example. I don't believe you can say he is a rhythm guitarist, nor could you argue anything about his tone sans pedals and effects.  On the other end of the spectrum is Pete Townsend, LOTS of effects and a rhythm player if their ever was one.  No hard feelings, man.  Just my opinion, which usually means it's not worth much.   
Hey Swoop- certainly no hard feelings here...it's just like anything else- everyone has opinions and preferences, and mine have changed countless times. In fact I have always used the different amp or different guitar as a kicker to get my interest level back up. I agree with you that there is no substitute for the magic flux that happens when tubes are cooking- that's where all the cool stuff happens. I have found over the years that there are a few tone types I like and no matter what equipment you give me I eventually get back to sounding the same- it may take some time to figure out, but I find my way back to where I'm comfortable.

I would love to have some old tube equipment to record with...in fact on the last cd I did some lead tracks with an old Fender Bassman cranked way up and mic'd out in the hallway...we ended up going over them again because of noise, but it was fun trying it. For what I do regularly now though I still have a big pedalboard and I can get a LOT of different sounds with one rig. In a live setting with the room dynamics, people talking, glasses clinking...it works fine, and I'm carrying one amp and a pedalboard box. If I had roadies...that would be different story! I think I'd have about 4 amps and a switching device.

Anyway like BB says, "It's all good". As long as people are enjoying music and making music it's a wonderful thing. 

Swoop

   

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[PegLeg45]

I love my guitars......I just don't play as often as I used to since I broke my left hand. Doing a lot of bar chords starts to make it hurt after a while.
I do like M25 said.....get hot and cold with my playing. I might go several months and not touch a guitar and then spend a month playing every day.

I have an early 80's Strat that I bought off a friend for $100 bucks. Ivory paint with a maple neck and a locking tremolo (that I blocked with balsa wood). He played in a country bar band and did a short tour in the far northern states (Michigan, the Dakotas) in the middle of winter. He left the Strat in the U-Haul overnight and it put a few cracks in the paint. The neck pick-up is a Seymour Duncan Hot-Rail and sounds great with 12ga. strings.
I bought a new Strat in '99. It is a 50's re-issue, black with antiqued maple neck, and is all stock. Still looks new.
I bought (from the same friend above) a 70's model Epiphone Genesis (looks like a Les Paul, but with double cut-outs) with a tobacco sunburst and gold hardware. It flat rocks ass through a FuzzFace and a Vox Wah pedal and a Marshall amp. Mucho tone with 12 or 13 gauge strings. Beautiful guitar, and heavy.
I have a no-name Telecaster copy that actually sounds pretty good. Ivory with a maple neck.

Alvarez is my go to six string acoustic, but I have an Ibanez classical that was left to me by a very close friend after he passed away. It plays well, but the neck is almost too wide for my comfort. I also have an el-cheapo (Ventura?) 12 string that needs some work but was free.
I still have my first guitar. It was a no-name acoustic that I bought from the Sears catalog in 1982. I worked in the tobacco patch to save up the $125 to buy it for a guitar class in 9th grade. For a cheap guitar, it sounded good and played better than some more expensive guitars. The Alvarez mentioned above was also bought by a friend for the same guitar class. Fifteen years later I bought it from him for $100.

I only have 2 amps, a Marshall Valve-State 80 stereo and a small Fender. They both do well especially through a PA.
The only effects I use are a Fuzz-Face and a Vox Wah. I have an old Korg G-3 with 3 pedals. It's good when you need to go from playing something like blues to something like Pink Floyd without changing guitars or amp settings.

[DesertMarine]

I started playing guitar in my late 40's, just got the urge.  Learned to play on my own.  I like classical and concert guitars.  I have a Pimentel concert, a Pimentel classical cut-away with pickup (had this one made for me) and a Takamine small body acoustic all in koa wood.  Had a Fender Strat (Japan made) for a while, did not like the narrow neck, traded it in for an Ibanez classical, cheap with great sound, gave it to a sister.  I play Mexican music from the revolution in 1900's to today's.  Also play in a Spanish choir at my church.  After the Beatles came in, I got away from rock&roll and went to Mexican music.  Love mild jazz, don't know anybody here that plays it and I am not current on it.  Also play and sing for folks at one of our nursing homes.  Don't read music, so play by ear. 

[DesertMarine]

Received this link from a friend today.  Not guitars but still great.  I can listen to this just about anytime, Jerry Lee Lewis, Ray Charles and Fats Domino.  Oh yes, I use Peavy acoustic amps.

http://vodpod.com/watch/1116988-ray-charles-jerry-lee-lewis-fats-domino