Our Saudi Allies

[fightingquaker13]

I was watching 60 minutes tonight (caveat emptor), and saw a heatwarming story. We have turned over, under Bush and Obama a number of the poor misunderstood lads from gitmo. (Full disclosure, I think it should be closed and these guys tried and convicted in US courts like Noriega, the Blind Sheik, and the Somali pirate). This being said, upon being repatriated to The Kingdom, they were punished with money to pay for a marriage, a house and a car.They were however, made to atend religious classes in why blowing people up was a bad thing, attend anger management classes, and art therapy. (Again full disclosure: given my choice between art therapy by some blissed out hippy religious type and waterboarding, I'd probably take a minute to decide). Its good to know though that both our former and current administrations are ensuring that our loyal allies in Saudi Arabia are kept happy.
FQ13, Who is seriously considering solar panels on the roof, a windmill in the back yard and trading his F-150 in on a good saddle horse, just so we can declare energy independence and then regard the Middle East with all the heart felt concern we display towards equitorial Africa. Honestly, how long will it take the US government to realize that we have NO allies in this region, Israel and Egypt included, and make energy independene, green and even not so green a priority?

[CortezSaltz]

I was watching 60 minutes tonight (caveat emptor), and saw a heatwarming story. We have turned over, under Bush and Obama a number of the poor misunderstood lads from gitmo. (Full disclosure, I think it should be closed and these guys tried and convicted in US courts like Noriega, the Blind Sheik, and the Somali pirate). This being said, upon being repatriated to The Kingdom, they were punished with money to pay for a marriage, a house and a car.They were however, made to atend religious classes in why blowing people up was a bad thing, attend anger management classes, and art therapy. (Again full disclosure: given my choice between art therapy by some blissed out hippy religious type and waterboarding, I'd probably take a minute to decide). Its good to know though that both our former and current administrations are ensuring that our loyal allies in Saudi Arabia are kept happy.
FQ13, Who is seriously considering solar panels on the roof, a windmill in the back yard and trading his F-150 in on a good saddle horse, just so we can declare energy independence and then regard the Middle East with all the heart felt concern we display towards equitorial Africa. Honestly, how long will it take the US government to realize that we have NO allies in this region, Israel and Egypt included, and make energy independene, green and even not so green a priority?

US have always used wrong policies when it comes to using alternative sources of energy and for this reason solar failed miserably in US.

[tombogan03884]

US have always used wrong policies when it comes to using alternative sources of energy and for this reason solar failed miserably in US.

Actually if you educate yourself on the subject you will find that the reason "solar" fails is that it takes more energy to make the equipment than you get in return . Wind and Hydrogen are the same.

[Magoo541]

Actually if you educate yourself on the subject you will find that the reason "solar" fails is that it takes more energy to make the equipment than you get in return . Wind and Hydrogen are the same.

Don't forget virgin bio-diesel.  The recycled stuff is already there but it takes as much energy to produce bio-diesel from corn as you get out of it.

[JC5123]

Actually if you educate yourself on the subject you will find that the reason "solar" fails is that it takes more energy to make the equipment than you get in return . Wind and Hydrogen are the same.

I disagree. That may be the case for large commercial applications, but I am slowly taking my place off the grid and I have found solar to be the best choice. With the payoff being inside of 7 years. I am also supplementing with wind, and a back-up generator, but my primary is solar. Now I'm sure that many factors help my situation, i.e. location, climate, etc. But I estimate the whole system is going to set me back somewhere between  $7k-$9k. I know this is expensive up front, but my normal electric bill (because I'm rural) is around 175.00/ month! This equates to a 4 1/2 year payoff. Now of course there are ancillary costs that I'm sure that I have not factored in. (fuel for generator, electrical maintenance) but still this is a really good solution. And I am setting everything up so that when all is well, I pump my excess back to the grid, but when something goes down, I switch automatically to my battery bank and disconnect from the grid.

You may disagree, but my research over the past year, for my location and my requirements, I feel that solar is a very viable option.   

[Sponsor]

[crusader rabbit]

Bunny and I lived aboard a couple of boats over the years and used wind generators extensively. 

On the smaller boat (36' sloop rigged sailboat) with one relatively small refrigerator and a computer with a DVD player for entertainment, we rarely needed to burn fossil fuels to keep the twin banks of batteries topped off. 

On the larger boat (48' ketch rigged sailboat) the wind generator augmented but did not supplant the diesel generator.  But, we also ran a water desalination system, two refrigeration systems, and much more in the way of electronic entertainment.

In the first instance on the smaller boat, the wind generator proved to be a cost effective investment, although it is unlikely we actually recouped the money in diesel savings over the five-plus years we were aboard.

In the second case, the wind generator helped more when we secured the boat for some shore-side adventures than when we were actually aboard.  We could secure one of the refrigerators and the wind generator would keep the other one running cold and the batteries topped off until we got back.

I would also point out that there are tremendous differences in power production in the various wind generator models available.  On the smaller boat we had an extremely efficient unit that occasionally had to be shut down so as not to overcharge the batteries.  On the larger boat, the unit was not quite as efficient, but it was a good deal quieter.

FWIW

Crusader Rabbit

[Rastus]

Batteries have to be replaced, solar cells have about a 10-12 year life before being replaced.  You have to house and support both...if you put solar cells on your roof you may need to reinforce the roof to hold them.  What you collect it and put into the battery will lose efficiency as it's DC current, and then you'll lose more to supply an inverter to get AC and lose a big chunk in the conversion as heat (you can by some DC fans, etc. that would help).

I hope you have it, but I doubt you have a 4-1/2 year payout or even a payout at all unless you are paying over 15 cents per KWH and use very little electricity.  Efficiency is up a bit on cells, but it has to hit the 23%+ mark to be really viable not to mention after day 1 efficiency tales off until you throw them out 10-12 years later.

I bet your cost will end up being somewhere around $75-$90/square foot of home with heating coming form propane/natural gas, wood or the like and electricity to run fans only.  $75/sq foot for homes greater than say 2,500 sq ft and going up as you have a smaller home that does not scale up so well, i.e. a home still needs the expensive inverter, initial set up, etc.  I bet a $1,000 s1 ft home would be around $90k.

This is all to be 100% off the grid using a wind generator when you can....

Look closely before you leap they learned their marketing from Obama.

[ccd]

 
   The Saudis have been indeed our loyal allies and they were instrumental in ensuring the fall of the Soviet Union. Several of our largest defense contractors would have gone under if not for them. In several instances the Saudis and the other gulf nations paid for us to actually improve our defense products so they would work like they were supposed to.
   Unfortunately Saudi unemployment rates among the young have been high for a while. You can't marry unless you can pay the brides family. If your family is poor, well.... Idle hands are indeed the devil's work. Especially when your loyalty is ensured only by the government dole. Just like here, a culture of wanting and expecting handouts ends up destroying the culture at large. You can't outsource your workforce in the long term and expect success.
   Fracking threatens to destroy the Saudi way of life. You can search and find several quotes from royals that say as much. Not just because of the USA, but also the prospects it holds in China. Combine this with the America's actions towards what has taken place in Eygpt, Bahrain and Syria, and the close long  time alliance will most certainly end.

[billt]

The Saudis have been indeed our loyal allies and they were instrumental in ensuring the fall of the Soviet Union.

This continuing train of thought has already gotten a lot of innocent Americans killed. All the 9/11 hijackers were of Saudi descent. It is foolish at this juncture to rely on ANY Arabic nation as our "ally". If you need proof, you don't have to look any further than Pakistan. If they knew we were coming for Bin Laden, he would have been out of that compound in 2 minutes flat. They're still holding the doctor who helped us in his apprehension, and refuse to release him despite our demands otherwise. With "allies" like these, who the hell needs enemies?

Arab Muslims are the most dangerous, untrustworthy people that exist on the surface of this planet. Trusting these backstabbers with anything, is nothing more than a solid cornerstone on which to build a disaster. That has already been proven numerous times. This situation is not at all "complicated". It is simply because politicians choose to make it that way. They simply refuse to accept the fact these violent, murdering, anti Christian animals hate us, and will continue to do so, regardless of how we try to appease their unquenchable thirst for blood, and the violence that goes along with it. 

[JC5123]

This continuing train of thought has already gotten a lot of innocent Americans killed. All the 9/11 hijackers were of Saudi descent. It is foolish at this juncture to rely on ANY Arabic nation as our "ally". If you need proof, you don't have to look any further than Pakistan. If they knew we were coming for Bin Laden, he would have been out of that compound in 2 minutes flat. They're still holding the doctor who helped us in his apprehension, and refuse to release him despite our demands otherwise. With "allies" like these, who the hell needs enemies?

Arab Muslims are the most dangerous, untrustworthy people that exist on the surface of this planet. Trusting these backstabbers with anything, is nothing more than a solid cornerstone on which to build a disaster. That has already been proven numerous times. This situation is not at all "complicated". It is simply because politicians choose to make it that way. They simply refuse to accept the fact these violent, murdering, anti Christian animals hate us, and will continue to do so, regardless of how we try to appease their unquenchable thirst for blood, and the violence that goes along with it.

Hey Bill, will you quit sugar coating everything and tell us how you REALLY feel?