Another sign of whats wrong with our society

[MikeBjerum]

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/StockInvestingTrading/a-budget-cure-marijuana-taxes.aspx

I don't want to debate whether anything should be legalized or not, but I have an issue with our moral compas and ethics.  We have publicly become a society that will put money above anything else.  I have heard this issue of the tax income from things saving us financially in the past, and in our area that is what brought the lottery and casinos out of the dark corners to lucrative business to be catered to.

In my mind right is right and wrong is wrong.  Making money is not the reason to say yes or no to something.  Also, just because everyone is already doing it is not a reason.  Minnesota raised speed limits by five to ten miles per hour, because that is how much over the limit most were driving on these highways ... Guess what ... now they drive five to ten over the new limits.  As my grandma used to ask "If everyone else jumped off the cliff would you?"  Isn't that what we are now doing in many areas just for a few dollar?

Rant off ... Time to head for the church.

[ericire12]

Its a money grab by politicians...... nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, our society has gotten to the point where they can push for this and not have to worry about reelection, but what you are seeing here is how politicians get when they see a chance to grab up more money -- same thing with Obama rewriting the tax code to "eliminate off shore tax shelters".

THE GOVT DOES NOT NEED MORE OF OUR MONEY!

If you want to make something legal because you believe it should be legal.... fine...... Do it. But what politicians are doing in both cases is manipulating laws simply to get their hands on more money.

I will say it again.... THE GOVT DOES NOT NEED MORE OF OUR MONEY! If they cant get by on the astronomical amounts of money they already take from us, then cut non essential programs in order to fund the necessities.... its what each of us do in our day to day lives and in our own personal budgets...... so why can Govt understand the same concept? 

[fightingquaker13]

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/StockInvestingTrading/a-budget-cure-marijuana-taxes.aspx

I don't want to debate whether anything should be legalized or not, but I have an issue with our moral compas and ethics.  We have publicly become a society that will put money above anything else.  I have heard this issue of the tax income from things saving us financially in the past, and in our area that is what brought the lottery and casinos out of the dark corners to lucrative business to be catered to.

In my mind right is right and wrong is wrong.  Making money is not the reason to say yes or no to something.  Also, just because everyone is already doing it is not a reason.  Minnesota raised speed limits by five to ten miles per hour, because that is how much over the limit most were driving on these highways ... Guess what ... now they drive five to ten over the new limits.  As my grandma used to ask "If everyone else jumped off the cliff would you?"  Isn't that what we are now doing in many areas just for a few dollar?

Rant off ... Time to head for the church.

Legalizing pot, and other drugs, isn't just about money M58, its also about very important moral issues as well as self defense, preserving our gun rights, national security and common sense.
Now, all thats going to make me sound like some stoner whack job. While I can't say I've never smoked ( I inhaled, exhaled and tried to blow smoke rings, because unlike Clinton I at least managed to do drugs correctly ), I haven't since freshman year of college when I went ROTC, so its been about 20 years.
That being said, the big lie about the drug war is that drugs cause all "drug" related problems. This is untrue. There are two sources of drug related problems. The first is due to the drugs themselves, and the second is due to prohibition and the blackmarket and attendent crime it creates.
Lets be clear, drugs can be addictive, cause health problems, lower job productivity and increase health care costs and be hard on families, the same way tobbaco and alchohol are. Would we be better of if all of the above didn't exist, yes. Do even chimps try to get drunk by seeking out fermented fruit, yes. Will the demand go away because of a law, no. Will someone always seek to provide a supply if the demand is there, yes.

By acknowledging this we leave a perfect drug free world, and travel back to planet earth. The bottom line is this. Drug abuse exacts a toll in lives, happiness and money. Prohibition on the other hand is far more expensive. What does prohibition do?
It means drug dealers must operate outside the law and deal in cash. They can't sue a supplier if a deal goes bad and they can't enjoy the protection of the police to prevent theft. Plus they are less easily deterred by laws against violence as they are looking at jail time if they just get caught with the merchandise. This means guns and violence are rational ways to deal with disputes as its basically the law of the jungle. In Texas in the '80s you had the chance to get less time (25-life) for second degree murder for killing a cop and claiming an accident, than you did if he caught you with a kilogram of crack, (life). Thus more gun violence, thus more calls to take our guns.
Likewise prohibition removes the state's ability to regulate. No refusal to sell to minors, no ability to certify purity, no way to say, sell the stuff only in package stores, make it expensive and ban advertising.
Prohibition also means large criminal gangs with lots of money.
Prohibition leads to the abilty to buy off or intimidate public servants. Look at Mexico and Columbia which are two steps ahead of anarchy. If you say it can't happen here (where our police and courts are far more constrained than there's are) it is you  who need to be drug tested.
Prohibition builds up international smuggling networks. If you can smuggle 800 pounds of pot, why not 800 pounds of c-4?

I could go on but I think that I've made my practical point. The moral point is this. God made us soveriegn over our own bodies and our own lives. Our neighbors, via the state, can only justly regulate our behavior to the extent that it poses a threat to others. Not just because they don't like it. To quote John Stuart Mill, "Your freedom to swing your fist stops where my nose begins." But not before. You want to poison yourself with heroin? I'll call you a jackass, but I won't put you in jail,
Libertarian counter rant over.
FQ13

[ericire12]

RQ13

You toe the libertarian line very well..... but your entire argument about legalization is nothing more then academic theory....... and you are missing the entire point, that is that the politicians who are wanting to do this are framing the debate in the context of wanting to do this specifically for the tax revenues.

[fightingquaker13]

RQ13

You tow the libretarian line very well..... but your entire argument about legalization is nothing more then academic theory....... and you are missing the entire point, that being the politicians that are wanting to do this are framing the debate in the context of wanting to do this specifically for the tax revenues.

Thank you for your praise of my adherence to Libertain doctrine. I am more used to being scolded because I support environmental laws and am a hawk on defense. As far as academic theory, I disagree. If you can make a factual counter argument to anything I said I will listen respectfully. Finally, when it comes to taxes, I would rather collect money from taxing drug consumption than pour yet more billions down a rat hole trying to prevent it which we have spectacularly failed to do since we started the drug war in 1914. Didn't we try this in the twenties?
FQ13 Who can now brag that at least one person has told him he knows how to tow a line (my dad will require proof)

[Sponsor]

[SwoopSJ]

I know this thread is supposed to be about the government collecting more money through taxing  legalized marijuana and not the moral aspects of legalization, but it seems one cannot be discussed without being biased by the other.  I have to agree with FQ13, why shouldn't the gov. make money on pot instead of spending our tax dollars on a war that's impossible to win.  Prohibition of alcohol proved that you cannot stop people from doing what they want to do.  You just create a black market which eliminates taxation, which in theory, hurts everyone, and increases the strength and money making capabilities of organized crime.  Furthermore,  I haven't seen any threads bashing the government when they raise taxes on alcohol or tobacco.  So, forgive me if I'm wrong, but this seems more of a moral issue than a political / taxation issue.  In that instance, if it is regulated like alcohol, I have no problem with marijuana.  Actually when it comes down to breaking the law, I would rather someone got behind the wheel after smoking a joint than just having polished of a sixer.  I mean it's hard to do much damage at 5 mph.     Before I give anyone the wrong impression, I am not a stoner, in fact, I am a devout Christian, but whether right or wrong, should it be illegal just because it's bad for us?  In that case, McDonald's, Burger King, Taco Bell, etc, will soon be outlawed.  If you aren't harming anyone else, it's up to you to follow your own moral compass, not have it mandated.  Just had to throw in my two pennies.

Swoop

 

[tombogan03884]

RQ13

You toe the libertarian line very well..... but your entire argument about legalization is nothing more then academic theory....... and you are missing the entire point, that is that the politicians who are wanting to do this are framing the debate in the context of wanting to do this specifically for the tax revenues.

I totally agree with FQ. Granted the motive is more taxes for the Gov to piss away but how many billions have been wasted on the totally ineffective "war on drugs" ? How much has the Constitution been trampled with forfeiture laws, No knock searches, etc.
The so called war on drugs was never intended to be anything more than a jobs program for already corrupt feds thrown out of work by the abject failure of the previous prohibition of Alcohol.

[Hazcat]

I totally agree with FQ. Granted the motive is more taxes for the Gov to piss away but how many billions have been wasted on the totally ineffective "war on some   drugs" ? How much has the Constitution been trampled with forfeiture laws, No knock searches, etc.

Had ta fix that for ya. 

[Timothy]

I have smoked pounds of the evil wacky stuff in my young life, and grew out of it as I did with alcohol.  They are both substances that do no harm to the fellow or gal partaking in their mood altering appeal but can do irrepairable harm to those around if abused.

I find nothing wrong in either and feel strongly, as a alcoholic myself that it is NOT an illness, but a weakness that I've overcome.  I work in a world that thinks differently about one over the other and I've chosen to stop the practice personally on both fronts.  

To each his own as they say, I'm sure we will have dozens of different opionions as varied as any other topic....

TAXES on any substance, thing, person, property, et al.....are wrong when the Government collecting them is unable to police itself and balance their own checkbook as we all must do at the end of every lunar cycle.  

[shooter32]

TAXES on any substance, thing, person, property, et al.....are wrong when the Government collecting them is unable to police itself and balance their own checkbook as we all must do at the end of every lunar cycle.

+100 Tim



No taxes and LESS GOVERNMENT.