Self Defense? or Overkill? Pharmacist Charged.

[PegLeg45]

Conjecture, rumor, hearsay, opinion....that's all any of us have to go on at this point. Hopefully the facts of the case will be sought promptly ........ and to a sane, educated conclusion.


Until then, there is SUPPOSED to be a little thing called INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY....beyond a 'reasonable doubt'.

[tt11758]

Conjecture, rumor, hearsay, opinion....that's all any of us have to go on at this point. Hopefully the facts of the case will be sought promptly ........ and to a sane, educated conclusion.


Until then, there is SUPPOSED to be a little thing called INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY....beyond a 'reasonable doubt'.

You said what I was trying to say, only much more eloquently and concisely.   

[Tyler Durden]

I am NOT on this forum very much, so I don't know what the atmosphere or decorum or etiquette is like here.

So without sounding too crass, I think the thug got what he deserved.  I also seriously doubt that the 14 year old who got away, the one who was brandishing the gun, is going to be some pillar of the community when he grows up.

If you were to come into my place of business wearing ski masks in the middle of May, well, you're not there to deliver girl scout cookies.  And then to go on and threaten me and mine....well... like John Wayne's character JB Books said, "Here's a little extra!"

[tombogan03884]

I am NOT on this forum very much, so I don't know what the atmosphere or decorum or etiquette is like here.

So without sounding too crass, I think the thug got what he deserved.  I also seriously doubt that the 14 year old who got away, the one who was brandishing the gun, is going to be some pillar of the community when he grows up.

If you were to come into my place of business wearing ski masks in the middle of May, well, you're not there to deliver girl scout cookies.  And then to go on and threaten me and mine....well... like John Wayne's character JB Books said, "Here's a little extra!"

While I agree, you can't do sh!t like that in front of security cameras and not expect to have some problems arise.

[Tyler Durden]

I think the lesson to be learned here....okay probably a few lessons actually:

1.  despite how easy of a shot it is to make, don't shoot what looks like an unarmed thug first,  take out the guy who is obviously brandishing the gun first instead.

2.  keep shooting until you can be reasonably assured that the perp has been hit multiple times and can't return fire

3.  don't leave the premises of the store, building, or house to chase after and shoot at the bad guy as he runs away

4.  just ASSume that everything was caught on videotape

5.  related to #4, don't say one single word to the cops other than something like, "Oh, my GAWD!  I was so afraid for my life and the lives of my coworkers, friends, family.  I am so shook up by what happened.  Oh, WOW! The adrenaline is still pumping.  Can I wait to make an official statement until I have had time to calm down and seek legal counsel?"  which in actuality is a euphemism for "I want to make sure my lawyer and I have a chance to view the video tape first and then issue a statement that will not conflict with what can be seen in the video."

6.  don't ever turn your back on a bad guy even if he looks to be down.

7.  don't stand over a guy and pump more rounds into him.  even if it is not caught on videotape, the forensics guys can show up with their fancy dowel rods and laser pointers and determine that you were standing over him as you delivered the coup de gras.  If you feel the urge to pump some more rounds into the guy, it's too late, you should have done that when you first "engaged" the bad guy.

well, that's all I have for now.  I am sure I will think of something else about 5 minutes after I log off here.

What say you?

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

All good points, but a special plus 10 on #1 and 7. If you feel the need to put a few extras into the badguy get them off BEFORE he hits the ground.

[PegLeg45]

Heck, IMO, breaking #3 above is where the guy went wrong the most. Running out shows the potential removal of threat in some eyes........then #7.
In the heat of the moment, I could overlook #1 if I was a juror.

[kopenhif]

I believe that he did not know how old they where,which one had the gun because of the adreniline and why would that even matter look at that person. he could not protect himself let alone the coworker and her child against a strong ten year old let alone some apperently determined criminals not kids, not babies, not anything other than someone putting innocent people in danger for what? money.Money they could have earned just like that guy if they would have got a job instead.Im releived that the guy put him down who knows who that robber would have killed if he would have kept going.Maybe my son or daughter maybe yours. this is my first time replying and i might get kicked off but i think some of you have it all wrong sympithize with the victim Thank him for saving someone you know.band together and let the criminals know there is no mercy for them. when they try to victomize innocent people.

[Tyler Durden]

welcome to the forums.

Nahh!!! I don't think you have to worry about getting kicked off.

The pharmacist (his name is Jerome Ersland, by the way) and his lawyer were on Bill O'Reilly a couple of nights ago.

Bill O'Reilly definitely did NOT play softball with him during the interview.

And from the Sig forum, again, I am hearing that DA told the judge that Ersland should be able to keep the rest of his guns.

And tonight Bill O'Reilly had Dennis Miller on and brought up this shooting.  Dennis summed it up pretty well:

You cannont pull guns on people and expect things to go well.

Yeah, you can go here:

http://www.foxnews.com/oreilly/

and then click on the Miller Time tab, should be the top one, and then fast forward to the six minute mark.

And I have to agree with Bill O'Reilly that the DA is getting too much flak from fellow Oklahomans about charging the guy with first degree murder.

[tombogan03884]

A typically good post Tyler,While I obviously wasn't there from what I saw on the video tape I STILL think it was excessive, however, as Miller said, you can't stick a gun in some ones face and expect it to turn out well.
When I made my earlier post I was not aware that the Pharmacist had medical problems, that was not apparent from the video of him chasing the other juvenile scumbag, and also agreeing with O'Rielly and Miller I will be stunned if he is actually convicted of First degree Murder, lesser charge, plea deal maybe, but no 1st degree murder conviction.

kopenhif, Welcome aboard, don't worry about getting kicked off HERE.  I'm still here ! We value the first Amendment just as much as the second, we may approve or detest your opinion but I don't think any one on here would even THINK of suppressing your opinion.
We have a "New Member thread where you can introduce yourself and get a bit of a read on the rest of us.
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=19.1130