Author Topic: Judge: Immigrants' rights violated in Conn. raids  (Read 10160 times)

fightingquaker13

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Re: Judge: Immigrants' rights violated in Conn. raids
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2009, 07:35:45 PM »
OK, I've got to ask. Where in the Constitution does it say that it applies to anyone on U.S. soil. Can you cite a specific court ruling that upheld that the Bill of Rights applies to anyone on U.S. soil. I'm willing to be educated. I agree with you about not wanting the Feds or any law enforcement agent busting in doors without a warrant........so long as the door belongs to a U.S. citizen.
Thats a great question Kid. I do know that the Court has always held the Bill of Rights as a limitation on federal actions, as in "Congress shall pass no law" or "Shall not be infringed" as much as grants on individual liberty. It works two ways (in theory), a negative limitation on the state, and a positive grant to the people. As far as when this applied to illegsls, I don't know. I do know that it has, except for those deemed enemy combatants, and Lincoln and Rossevelt's illegal suspension of Habeas Corpus under the War Powers doctrine. Likewise Native Americans prior to 1920 got screwed as they were held to be citizens of dependent domestic nations, not US citizens, and therefore goverened by treaty. I think the Wick Lo case addresses this but I'm not sure, I'll look it up and get back to you.
FQ13

tombogan03884

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Re: Judge: Immigrants' rights violated in Conn. raids
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2009, 07:43:22 PM »
OK, I've got to ask. Where in the Constitution does it say that it applies to anyone on U.S. soil. Can you cite a specific court ruling that upheld that the Bill of Rights applies to anyone on U.S. soil. I'm willing to be educated. I agree with you about not wanting the Feds or any law enforcement agent busting in doors without a warrant........so long as the door belongs to a U.S. citizen.

As usual FQ is wrong as is the Judge, I don't know the reference but a couple years ago SCOTUS ruled that illegal search did NOT automatically disqualify evidence that would have been obtained had the search been legal. It was a drug case.

Kid Shelleen

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Re: Judge: Immigrants' rights violated in Conn. raids
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2009, 07:50:35 PM »
Thats a great question Kid. I do know that the Court has always held the Bill of Rights as a limitation on federal actions, as in "Congress shall pass no law" or "Shall not be infringed" as much as grants on individual liberty. It works two ways (in theory), a negative limitation on the state, and a positive grant to the people. As far as when this applied to illegsls, I don't know. I do know that it has, except for those deemed enemy combatants, and Lincoln and Rossevelt's illegal suspension of Habeas Corpus under the War Powers doctrine. Likewise Native Americans prior to 1920 got screwed as they were held to be citizens of dependent domestic nations, not US citizens, and therefore goverened by treaty. I think the Wick Lo case addresses this but I'm not sure, I'll look it up and get back to you.
FQ13
Thanks for the update. I'll look forward to your findings on the Wick Lo case. The designation of Native Americans as non citizens prior to 1920 and therefore not entitled to rights as citizens would seem to support my conjecture regarding the lack of rights for non citizens. I'm curious about your personal feelings regarding confering Heller (2nd Amendment) rights to illegal aliens. Do you personally believe, legal stance not considered, that illegal aliens should have the right to "Keep and Bear Arms?"
“What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that the people preserve the spirit of resistance?”

Thomas Jefferson, 1787

tombogan03884

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Re: Judge: Immigrants' rights violated in Conn. raids
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2009, 07:52:03 PM »
Not just NO but F^#@ NO !

fightingquaker13

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Re: Judge: Immigrants' rights violated in Conn. raids
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2009, 07:52:20 PM »
As usual FQ is wrong as is the Judge, I don't know the reference but a couple years ago SCOTUS ruled that illegal search did NOT automatically disqualify evidence that would have been obtained had the search been legal. It was a drug case.

Actually, a few months ago and it was a bad ruling, as what else will keep the cops from ignoring the need for a warrant? Fear that they'll get arrested and charged? Even you don't believe that Tom. The point is that the cops have to have a warrant to come into our homes. You may trust federal law enforcement,and welcome them into your house. Me, not so much. I like the the 4th ammendment, and think that we should enforce it. Cops can get a warrant for the asking, its not hard to do. Therefore, if they don't, its their fault if they think that they are above the laws that they supposedly enforce. I am pro-leo, I just have a healthy suspicion of armed agents of the state that have the ability to kill me or ruin my life. I think they should be held to the law. If you disagree, thats fine.
FQ13

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Re: Judge: Immigrants' rights violated in Conn. raids
« Reply #15 on: Today at 01:49:16 AM »

tombogan03884

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Re: Judge: Immigrants' rights violated in Conn. raids
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2009, 07:55:22 PM »
Never said I agreed with it, said I remembered it. As it happens I hate LEO's, Cops are OK but LEO's suck.

Kid Shelleen

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Re: Judge: Immigrants' rights violated in Conn. raids
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2009, 07:58:26 PM »
Not just NO but F^#@ NO !
Howdy Tom,
I assume that you're responding to my question about illegals having 2nd Amend. rights. I was really just asking FQ13. I can't possibly believe that any other member of this entire forum would reply with a yes.
“What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that the people preserve the spirit of resistance?”

Thomas Jefferson, 1787

tombogan03884

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Re: Judge: Immigrants' rights violated in Conn. raids
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2009, 08:00:19 PM »
Howdy Tom,
I assume that you're responding to my question about illegals having 2nd Amend. rights. I was really just asking FQ13. I can't possibly believe that any other member of this entire forum would reply with a yes.

;D  He never did answer that, did he  ;D

fightingquaker13

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Re: Judge: Immigrants' rights violated in Conn. raids
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2009, 08:00:38 PM »
Thanks for the update. I'll look forward to your findings on the Wick Lo case. The designation of Native Americans as non citizens prior to 1920 and therefore not entitled to rights as citizens would seem to support my conjecture regarding the lack of rights for non citizens. I'm curious about your personal feelings regarding confering Heller (2nd Amendment) rights to illegal aliens. Do you personally believe, legal stance not considered, that illegal aliens should have the right to "Keep and Bear Arms?"
I agre with Tom here. The 2A, like all rights, does come with conditions. We have free speech, but libel isn't protected. Likewise free excersize of religion, but human sacrifice isn't allowed and you still have to take your kid to the doctor. For the 2A, there are certain qualifications to having a gun, like being of age and not being a criminal. Illegals are, by definition criminals, or to be more PC ,un-lawabiding persons  ::), ergo no gun.
FQ13

Kid Shelleen

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Re: Judge: Immigrants' rights violated in Conn. raids
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2009, 08:03:19 PM »
;D  He never did answer that, did he  ;D
Not yet, I guess that he's taking a little while to ponder his answer. Might be a good sign or then again......
“What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that the people preserve the spirit of resistance?”

Thomas Jefferson, 1787

 

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