Would you have tased this 72 yr old woman?

[Teresa Heilevang]

She might have been a bitch.. but he was an ass-wipe...

[fightingquaker13]

Simple point.Cops have the duty to enforce the law. They DO NOT have the right to punish people for breakng it. I don't care what kind of day you're having. When someone puts a weapon in your hands you have a higher responsibility.Either live up to it or find a new line of work. I don't care what they charge this woman with, but  Barney Fife should be fired.
FQ13

[Rob Pincus]

I have seen all of the video. The tricky thing is that the Taser is not just designed deployed to protect the officer, it is also a device that is intended to protect the citizen. (Let's table all of the unsubstantiated "Tasers Kill!" stuff for now). I worked LE in the days just before Tasers were starting to be issued, but I was certified as a Taser Instructor and have been shot with 3 different models at various times (in training..... ).

The Taser is designed to protect the citizen by avoiding the use of batons or unarmed techniques that tend to result in greater injuries than the probes/electrical energy. This guy could have snapped her arm, but when she started resisting the first attempt to cuff, he pushed her away and drew his Taser. This action is probably precisely in line with his current training and department policy. Something like: "Don't wrestle with people, use the tools we've given you to minimize injury to both you and the citizen involved."

We could just as easily have been watching a video of "72 year old women slammed against truck!" or "72 year old great grandmother has arm broken!".

If the guy had been more charming and articulate, he might have been able to avoid needing to use force, but he wasn't. Charming and Articulate might make some parts of the LE job easier, but I'm sure his academy spent more time on the laws he was supposed to enforce (especially revenue collection traffic stops) and how to use force to do so and to protect himself.

Would I have Tased her?  Probably not. But, if you drop me into the situation at the time when she is out of the car trying to shove her way past the officer, I would probably have ended up in a LT's office explaining why I pushed an old woman against her truck and bruised her arm while putting her in cuffs. Same situation, different decade.  Of course, we also didn't have dash camera videos, so it would be some poor polite old woman's word against the occasionally-assertive Officer Pincus. I also saw an interview that grandma did with a local news agency (before the dash camera footage was released) in which she reads the police report and says adamantly that she did not use foul language, did not put her hands on the officer and was not being any type of problem whatsoever. Without the dash camera, you just might have believed her.....

[Badgersmilk]

"Dont tase me bro!" 

Excessive force. 

[Timothy]

I also saw an interview that grandma did with a local news agency (before the dash camera footage was released) in which she reads the police report and says adamantly that she did not use foul language, did not put her hands on the officer and was not being any type of problem whatsoever. Without the dash camera, you just might have believed her.....

I saw that part of the interview as well and if anything, Granny is a bit of a liar.  After release of the video, according to the report, she shut the hell up....

Again, I wasn't there and I say again, don't piss someone off who has many options to restrain an indivdual at their disposal!

Good points once again Rob!

[Sponsor]

[USSA-1]

To answer to original question, Would I have tased her?  No, but like Rob, my dept. did not have a taser program.  The choices available to me were ASP Baton, OC, or hands-on.  I probably would have just went hands on, but it all depends on department policy.

The claims that the officer assaulted her when he pushed her back or that there was no need to get her out of the truck for a speeding ticket really depend on the rule of law in that particular jurisdiction.  At my old agency and according to State Law, every traffic stop was a custodial arrest, but that if the subject would sign the summons (a promise to appear in court [if need be], or pay the fine) then, they would be released on their signature.  If the subject refused to sign the summons, in essence, refusing to appear in court or pay the fine, then they must be brought before the Magistrate Judge to handle the matter in person.  Of course 99% would sign the summons.  I had several occasions where I needed to take some additional time with the subject to fully explain the repercussions of not signing the summons, but most realized that signing was a far better thing to do.  Then you'd have the 1% that had to do things the hard way and they got cuffed, their vehicle towed, and transported to the Magistrate.  

If this officer worked in such a jurisdiction and if the granny refused to sign the summons, then the LEO would be required to arrest her.  At that point, any amount of reasonable force is sanctioned to effect the arrest.  Now department policy on the amount and type of force would start apply.

As for the shove, after having worked in a large urban area where more LEO's were killed by passing traffic than by violent offenders, I would have physically moved her over to the shoulder or started walking over that way hoping she would follow me.  If not, then yes, I would snatch her and drag her over away from traffic.  At the time of the shove the LEO seemed trapped by the corner of the truck and the passing traffic.

In the end, this really is a public-image, no win situation for the LEO.  Any amount of force used on a 72 yr old granny is going to tug at the emotional heart strings of anyone watching the video.  This is one of those few instances where you have a job to do and laws to enforce.  Sometimes people make you do things you don't want to do (like jacking-up a 72 yr. old grandmother), but that is the nature of the work.  As others have stated, I would have handled it differently, but assuming the LEO followed the laws of his jurisdiction and his department policy on use of force, then he's justifed in what he did.

USSA-1

[Pathfinder]

...
If the guy had been more charming and articulate, he might have been able to avoid needing to use force, but he wasn't. Charming and Articulate might make some parts of the LE job easier, but I'm sure his academy spent more time on the laws he was supposed to enforce (especially revenue collection traffic stops) and how to use force to do so and to protect himself.

...
I had several occasions where I needed to take some additional time with the subject to fully explain the repercussions of not signing the summons, but most realized that signing was a far better thing to do.  Then you'd have the 1% that had to do things the hard way and they got cuffed, their vehicle towed, and transported to the Magistrate.  

If this officer worked in such a jurisdiction and if the granny refused to sign the summons, then the LEO would be required to arrest her.  At that point, any amount of reasonable force is sanctioned to effect the arrest.  Now department policy on the amount and type of force would start apply.
...
This is one of those few instances where you have a job to do and laws to enforce.  Sometimes people make you do things you don't want to do (like jacking-up a 72 yr. old grandmother), but that is the nature of the work.  As others have stated, I would have handled it differently, but assuming the LEO followed the laws of his jurisdiction and his department policy on use of force, then he's justifed in what he did.

USSA-1

Court jurisdictions around the country, including the SCOTUS, have consistently ruled that the police have no legal obligation to enforce any law at any time. Rob got it close, the LEO would lose his job if the tickets ain't flowing.

IMO, and admittedly from a chopped up video, this cop comes across as one of those more than occasionally assertive types who gets off on the power and authority in his badge. Look at his body language the whole time, he shoved her, he was doing everything to intimidate this person, not explain things to her. I wonder what the chopped out portions show? It appears she was retreating to the side of the road when he finally tased her as well. Hard to tell from the video if he had any problems with this.

He did use his radio once, but he should have called for a female backup and let her deal with the obnoxious granny, especially after she started being pissy. Being obnoxious is not a crime, and certainly not a reason for (or worth) being tased over.

This is a difference in older LEOs and the newer crop - the young'uns are being taught it is perfectly acceptable to violate a citizen - on a traffic stop no less - as long as it is within the rules.

As we learned in the CA class I just finished with the County Sheriff, being a cop is all about how you talk with people. There was a decided difference between how the Capt. and sergeants talked, and how the young training officer and patrol officers talked. The younger ones are much harder, much more authoritarian from the very beginning than the older officers. As one of the young ones told me directly - "I don't care what happens, I am going home safe at the end of the day!"

[tombogan03884]

"Being obnoxious is not a crime, and certainly not a reason for (or worth) being tased over."

You never met my ex wife.

[fightingquaker13]

"Being obnoxious is not a crime, and certainly not a reason for (or worth) being tased over."

You never met my ex wife.

Some how Tom, I think if she were asked, she might give an identical answer, just inserting the word husband. Just a hunch.
FQ13

[tombogan03884]

Some how Tom, I think if she were asked, she might give an identical answer, just inserting the word husband. Just a hunch.
FQ13

Depends on what her NEW husband is like.