Author Topic: What to expect from Socialist health care  (Read 2218 times)

tombogan03884

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What to expect from Socialist health care
« on: June 14, 2009, 04:22:48 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090614/ap_on_go_ot/us_health_care_s_forgotten

CROW AGENCY, Mont. – Ta'Shon Rain Little Light, a happy little girl who loved to dance and dress up in traditional American Indian clothes, had stopped eating and walking. She complained constantly to her mother that her stomach hurt.

When Stephanie Little Light took her daughter to the Indian Health Service clinic in this wind-swept and remote corner of Montana, they told her the 5-year-old was depressed.

Ta'Shon's pain rapidly worsened and she visited the clinic about 10 more times over several months before her lung collapsed and she was airlifted to a children's hospital in Denver. There she was diagnosed with terminal cancer, confirming the suspicions of family members.

A few weeks later, a charity sent the whole family to Disney World so Ta'Shon could see Cinderella's Castle, her biggest dream. She never got to see the castle, though. She died in her hotel bed soon after the family arrived in Florida.

"Maybe it would have been treatable," says her great-aunt, Ada White, as she stoically recounts the last few months of Ta'Shon's short life. Stephanie Little Light cries as she recalls how she once forced her daughter to walk when she was in pain because the doctors told her it was all in the little girl's head.

Ta'Shon's story is not unique in the Indian Health Service system, which serves almost 2 million American Indians in 35 states.

On some reservations, the oft-quoted refrain is "don't get sick after June," when the federal dollars run out. It's a sick joke, and a sad one, because it's sometimes true, especially on the poorest reservations where residents cannot afford health insurance. Officials say they have about half of what they need to operate, and patients know they must be dying or about to lose a limb to get serious care.

Wealthier tribes can supplement the federal health service budget with their own money. But poorer tribes, often those on the most remote reservations, far away from city hospitals, are stuck with grossly substandard care. The agency itself describes a "rationed health care system."

The sad fact is an old fact, too.

The U.S. has an obligation, based on a 1787 agreement between tribes and the government, to provide American Indians with free health care on reservations. But that promise has not been kept. About one-third more is spent per capita on health care for felons in federal prison, according to 2005 data from the health service.

In Washington, a few lawmakers have tried to bring attention to the broken system as Congress attempts to improve health care for millions of other Americans. But tightening budgets and the relatively small size of the American Indian population have worked against them.

"It is heartbreaking to imagine that our leaders in Washington do not care, so I must believe that they do not know," Joe Garcia, president of the National Congress of American Indians, said in his annual state of Indian nations' address in February.

___

When it comes to health and disease in Indian country, the statistics are staggering.

American Indians have an infant death rate that is 40 percent higher than the rate for whites. They are twice as likely to die from diabetes, 60 percent more likely to have a stroke, 30 percent more likely to have high blood pressure and 20 percent more likely to have heart disease.

American Indians have disproportionately high death rates from unintentional injuries and suicide, and a high prevalence of risk factors for obesity, substance abuse, sudden infant death syndrome, teenage pregnancy, liver disease and hepatitis.

While campaigning on Indian reservations, presidential candidate Barack Obama cited this statistic: After Haiti, men on the impoverished Pine Ridge and Rosebud Reservations in South Dakota have the lowest life expectancy in the Western Hemisphere.

Those on reservations qualify for Medicare and Medicaid coverage. But a report by the Government Accountability Office last year found that many American Indians have not applied for those programs because of lack of access to the sign-up process; they often live far away or lack computers. The report said that some do not sign up because they believe the government already has a duty to provide them with health care.

The office of minority health at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, which oversees the Indian Health Service, notes on its Web site that American Indians "frequently contend with issues that prevent them from receiving quality medical care. These issues include cultural barriers, geographic isolation, inadequate sewage disposal and low income."

Indeed, Indian health clinics often are ill-equipped to deal with such high rates of disease, and poor clinics do not have enough money to focus on preventive care. The main problem is a lack of federal money. American Indian programs are not a priority for Congress, which provided the health service with $3.6 billion this budget year.

Officials at the health service say they can't legally comment on specific cases such as Ta'Shon's. But they say they are doing the best they can with the money they have — about 54 cents on the dollar they need.

One of the main problems is that many clinics must "buy" health care from larger medical facilities outside the health service because the clinics are not equipped to handle more serious medical conditions. The money that Congress provides for those contract health care services is rarely sufficient, forcing many clinics to make "life or limb" decisions that leave lower-priority patients out in the cold.

"The picture is much bigger than what the Indian Health Service can do," says Doni Wilder, an official at the agency's headquarters in Rockville, Md., and the former director of the agency's Northwestern region. "Doctors every day in our organization are making decisions about people not getting cataracts removed, gall bladders fixed."

On the Standing Rock Reservation in North Dakota, Indian Health Service staff say they are trying to improve conditions. They point out recent improvements to their clinic, including a new ambulance bay. But in interviews on the reservation, residents were eager to share stories about substandard care.

Rhonda Sandland says she couldn't get help for her advanced frostbite until she threatened to kill herself because of the pain — several months after her first appointment. She says she was exposed to temperatures at more than 50 below, and her hands turned purple. She eventually couldn't dress herself, she says, and she visited the clinic over and over again, sometimes in tears.

"They still wouldn't help with the pain so I just told them that I had a plan," she said. "I was going to sleep in my car in the garage."

She says the clinic then decided to remove five of her fingers, but a visiting doctor from Bismarck, N.D., intervened, giving her drugs instead. She says she eventually lost the tops of her fingers and the top layer of skin.

The same clinic failed to diagnose Victor Brave Thunder with congestive heart failure, giving him Tylenol and cough syrup when he told a doctor he was uncomfortable and had not slept for several days. He eventually went to a hospital in Bismarck, which immediately admitted him. But he had permanent damage to his heart, which he attributed to delays in treatment. Brave Thunder, 54, died in April while waiting for a heart transplant.

"You can talk to anyone on the reservation and they all have a story," says Tracey Castaway, whose sister, Marcella Buckley, said she was in $40,000 of debt because of treatment for stomach cancer.

Buckley says she visited the clinic for four years with stomach pains and was given a variety of diagnoses, including the possibility of a tapeworm and stress-related stomachaches. She was eventually told she had Stage 4 cancer that had spread throughout her body.

Ron His Horse is Thunder, chairman of the Standing Rock tribe, says his remote reservation on the border between North Dakota and South Dakota can't attract or maintain doctors who know what they are doing. Instead, he says, "We get old doctors that no one else wants or new doctors who need to be trained."

His Horse is Thunder often travels to Washington to lobby for more money and attention, but he acknowledges that improvements are tough to come by.

"We are not one congruent voting bloc in any one state or area," he said. "So we don't have the political clout."

___

On another reservation 200 miles north of Standing Rock, Ardel Baker, a member of North Dakota's Three Affiliated Tribes, knows all too well the truth behind the joke about money running out.

Baker went to her local clinic with severe chest pains and was sent by ambulance to a hospital more than an hour away. It wasn't until she got there that she noticed she had a note attached to her, written on U.S. Department of Health and Human Services letterhead.

"Understand that Priority 1 care cannot be paid for at this time due to funding issues," the letter read. "A formal denial letter has been issued."

She lived, but she says she later received a bill for more than $5,000.

"That really epitomizes the conflict that we have," says Robert McSwain, deputy director of the Indian Health Service. "We have to move the patient out, it's an emergency. We need to get them care."

It was too late for Harriet Archambault, according to the chairman of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee, Democratic Sen. Byron Dorgan of North Dakota, who has told her story more than once in the Senate.

Dorgan says Archambault died in 2007 after her medicine for hypertension ran out and she couldn't get an appointment to refill it at the nearest clinic, 18 miles away. She drove to the clinic five times and failed to get an appointment before she died.

Dorgan's swath of the country is the hardest hit in terms of Indian health care. Many reservations there are poor, isolated, devoid of economic development opportunities and subject to long, harsh winters — making it harder for the health service to recruit doctors to practice there.

While the agency overall has an 18 percent vacancy rate for doctors, that rate jumps to 38 percent for the region that includes the Dakotas. That region also has a 29 percent vacancy rate for dentists, and officials and patients report there is almost no preventive dental care. Routine procedures such as root canals are rarely seen here. If there's a problem with a tooth, it is simply pulled.

Dorgan has led efforts in Congress to bring attention to the issue. After many years of talking to frustrated patients at home in North Dakota, he says he believes the problems are systemic within the embattled agency: incompetent staffers are transferred instead of fired; there are few staff to handle complaints; and, in some cases, he says, there is a culture of intimidation within field offices charged with overseeing individual clinics.

The senator has also probed waste at the agency.

A 2008 GAO report, along with a follow-up report this year, accused the Indian Health Service of losing almost $20 million in equipment, including vehicles, X-ray and ultrasound equipment and numerous laptops. The agency says some of the items were later found.

Dorgan persuaded Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., to consider an American Indian health improvement bill last year, and the bill passed in the Senate. It would have directed Congress to provide about $35 billion for health programs over the next 10 years, including better access to health care services, screening and mental health programs. A similar bill died in the House, though, after it became entangled in an abortion dispute.

The growing political clout of some remote reservations may bring some attention to health care woes. Last year's Democratic presidential primary played out in part in the Dakotas and Montana, where both Obama and Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton became the first presidential candidates to aggressively campaign on American Indian reservations there. Both politicians promised better health care.

Obama's budget for 2010 includes an increase of $454 million, or about 13 percent, over this year. Also, the stimulus bill he signed this year provided for construction and improvements to clinics.

___

Back in Montana, Ta'Shon's parents are doing what they can to bring awareness to the issue. They have prepared a slideshow with pictures of her brief life; she is seen dressed up in traditional regalia she wore for dance competitions with a bright smile on her face. Family members approached Dorgan at a Senate field hearing on American Indian health care after her death in 2006, hoping to get the little girl's story out.

"She was a gift, so bright and comforting," says Ada White of her niece, whom she calls her granddaughter according to Crow tradition. "I figure she was brought here for a reason."

Nearby, the clinic on the Crow reservation seems mostly empty, aside from the crowded waiting room. The hospital is down several doctors, a shortage that management attributes recruitment difficulties and the remote location.

Diane Wetsit, a clinical coordinator, said she finds it difficult to think about the congressional bailout for Wall Street.

"I have a hard time with that when I walk down the hallway and see what happens here," she says.

This is how we will ALL be treated if that communist POS gets his way

Pathfinder

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Re: What to expect from Socialist health care
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2009, 06:04:43 PM »
Thread hijack . . .

The reservations here in ND are in sad shape. There are casinos, yes, but I have personally been on a couple and the substandard housing and sheer poverty will break your heart. Our church along with others in the same association used to take school supplies and backpacks down every fall. We had a young pastor who was less than interested until he saw that I was dead serious about doing it and took over. Nobody was doing anything, so I stepped back in and drove it hard. Our small church (20 members?) contributed as many as some of the bigger 100+ families. We had to - the conditions are terrible. And I am sad to hear that the medical services are equally as bad.

One idea is to eliminate the reservations - make a deal with the tribes, land ownership and per capita cash for giving up the special statuses. The "we're victims" crowd won't go for it - like all good leftists they get money and power at the expense of the people (sounds like inner city Black preachers like Jackson, Sharpton, Wright et al?). There are issues with this as well - the rampant alcohol and drug abuse in particular.

Oh yeah, just search the net for postings about medicine for Canadians and Brits - it ain't working for them either.

OK, hijack over, back to the angriest white man here . . . .    ;D  ;D  ;D
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do this to others and I require the same from them"

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twyacht

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Re: What to expect from Socialist health care
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2009, 07:41:20 PM »
Hijack was warranted for the "big picture". Casinos, like here at the Seminole Reservation, benefit so few of the community. The overhead and greed of the Hard Rock Cafe Casino, staff, mgt., admin staff, supplies, etc,... leave very little left for the premise the revenue was "supposed to help"....Not just the Hard Rock, there are others,...The state of Florida is now finalizing a deal for the casino's to "advance" the state cash to keep going,...We're talking hundreds of MILLIONS of dollars....

Church participation is what it is, a band-aid on an open wound,.. To give up the reservations, here in S. Florida, would not work as the cigarette trailers, exempt from State Tax, make a killing....for the reservation.

"At the expense of the people, is the goal." Dependent on gov't, is where were headed. Not by the few that can make do, or the individualists that adhere to traditional American principles. Now there are the masses in a recession, and converts that tried, made poor financial decisions, (buying a $275,000 house on a $26,000 a year job they got laid off from, plus credit card debt,.etc,...) Avenues were given to those who should never have been granted a means to fail.

The whirlpool is picking up speed, ask GM or Chrysler....

The angriest white man/woman here, is not wrong.  It's not being racist, or having prejudice. Bad choices were made by "white men" in Congress, and Washington DC, and our fiscal policy was based on paper, which was crumpled and thrown in the shredder.

The burden of debt now carries two generations forward....



Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

tombogan03884

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Re: What to expect from Socialist health care
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2009, 08:14:33 PM »
 I don't see that it was a thread hijack Pathfinder. The deal the Indians got was go on the Res. and become "Wards of the Govt." . The Indian Agents started the corruption and mismanagement immediately after as they were Govt. Appointees looking to line their own pockets. While the level of corruption MAY ebb and flow, the level of government incompetence never falls.
Now these socialist m@#$erfu*@ers want to make us ALL wards of the Govt. I say, not NO, but HELL NO !
(PS My Dad and Stepmother used to send school supplies out to Pine Ridge as well, I don't know if they still do since they retired. )

Steyr M40A1

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Re: What to expect from Socialist health care
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2009, 09:53:25 PM »
I just visited two weeks ago Cherokee NC.
I was devastated.  I used to frequent there twice a year in my teens and the place has gone to hell.
The casino opened about 15years ago and in that time the town went from a nice quaint place with a tourist area to being a couple of LARGE buildings for the casino and its hotel, all the little motels closed, the tourist area all employed with whites, and the charm gone. Hell I dont think I saw many locals at all but for the road crews.
Damn shame!


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Re: What to expect from Socialist health care
« Reply #5 on: Today at 02:09:55 PM »

CJS3

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Re: What to expect from Socialist health care
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2009, 09:30:42 PM »
You don't have to go to the reservations for an example of gubmint health care. Just go to the closest big city, county hospital on a saturday night, and walk through the waiting room.
Children, pets, and slaves are taken care of. Free Men take care of themselves.

tombogan03884

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Re: What to expect from Socialist health care
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2009, 09:45:14 PM »
Talk to guys who have dealt with VA hospitals, my Dad has been fighting with them on some issues for 3 or 4 years now.
Bear in mind that less money will equal even less service then read the following.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090617/ap_on_go_co/us_health_overhaul

WASHINGTON – Jolted by cost estimates as high as $1.6 trillion, Senate Democrats agreed to scale back planned subsidies for the uninsured and sought concessions totaling hundreds of billions of dollars from private industry Tuesday to defray the cost of sweeping health care legislation. At the same time, key Democrats disagreed openly among themselves over a proposed tax on health insurance benefits to pay for expanding coverage to the uninsured.

And a compromise with Republicans over a role for government in the insurance marketplace remained elusive.

Despite numerous uncertainties, Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., announced that the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee would begin formal work Wednesday on legislation he said would provide "successful, affordable, quality health care."

The meeting would mark the first public drafting session in either chamber on legislation to control the costs of health care while expanding coverage to the nearly 50 million who lack it — a goal that President Barack Obama has placed atop his domestic agenda.

Separately, the Senate Finance Committee is expected to begin work next week on a companion measure. Several officials said the Congressional Budget Office had issued a cost estimate of $1.6 trillion, with only about $560 billion paid for. They spoke on condition of anonymity, saying the matter was confidential.

Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., chairman of the panel, dismissed the estimates as outdated, and said the final bill would come in at about $1 trillion.

Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., said that with cost estimates so high, "It is clear there have got to be changes made to make the whole package affordable."

At the Senate Health panel, officials said that after penciling in subsidies for families with incomes as high as $110,000, or 500 percent of the federal poverty level, they would limit the help to families up to $88,000 in income, or 400 percent of the poverty level. A preliminary CBO estimate on that measure, released Monday, calculated a cost of $1 trillion.

The emerging Finance Committee bill also cuts off subsidies at 400 percent of the poverty level, but officials said that might be lowered due to cost concerns. Baucus told reporters a reduction was "a live option," and there were indications the final cutoff would be closer to 300 percent of poverty — $66,000 for a four-person family_ than 400 percent.

Additionally, Conrad said leading Democrats were searching for a way to prevent millions of people who currently are insured from taking the federal subsidies and then buying insurance on their own, opting out of their employer-provided plan.

In a brief interview with The Associated Press, Baucus also disclosed he was "very close" to agreement with a handful of industry groups for them to accept hundreds of billions of dollars less in Medicare and Medicaid fees than they currently are projected to receive. He said the talks have involved insurance companies, hospitals, doctors, pharmaceutical firms and the makers of medical devices, among others, but did not provide a specific figure for the savings overall.

The efforts are separate from pledges that Obama won earlier in the year from industry groups to restrain future increases in health care spending by roughly $2 trillion over a decade. In a letter to Republicans, the CBO said "most of the proposals are steps that do not require the involvement of the federal government or are not specified at a level of detail that would enable CBO to estimate budgetary savings."

To pay for the legislation, Baucus has signaled he intends to propose a tax on health insurance benefits for individuals with the costliest health insurance coverage, possibly plans with premiums totaling more than $15,000 between employer and employee combined. Obama campaigned aggressively against the idea when Republican rival Sen. John McCain proposed it during last year's presidential campaign.

While the president has recently signaled flexibility on the issue, Dodd criticized it for potentially penalizing individuals and families at a time they are under financial pressure. "I'm not attracted to that idea," he said.

Other senators, allied with organized labor, have also expressed opposition, although Baucus has told reporters he could exempt health benefits included in union contracts from the tax.

Baucus has been negotiating privately with Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, the senior Republican on the committee, over the role of government in insurance.

Democrats generally favor allowing government to offer insurance in competition with private companies, and Republicans oppose it.

Conrad last week offered a compromise that would allow nonprofit cooperatives to sell policies, and he joined Baucus and Grassley in a closed-door evening session to review their efforts.

Grassley said before the meeting that nothing was finalized yet, and indicated the sticking point was Baucus' insistence that the federal government play a behind-the-scenes role.

Baucus told reporters, "The goal of public option is to keep the health insurance (industry's) feet to the fire. Make sure they do all the things we tell them to do in the legislation." He said another goal is to keep costs down.

But, he added he remains open to "another way to accomplish the same result."

In an interview with The Associated Press, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius stressed that Obama is open to compromise on the issue of a public plan. She spoke positively of the compromise proposal of cooperatives, which she said could receive seed money from the Treasury but then be free of control.

She predicted that in the end, the insurance industry will blink first in a showdown over the issue.

"I think they understand there's a lot of momentum both in the House and in the Senate for something to pass, and they'd much rather be inside the room, having those discussions, and helping to shape it as much to their liking as they possibly can," she said.



These assholes have to go.

runstowin

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Re: What to expect from Socialist health care
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2009, 10:57:31 PM »
These grotesque problems have been going on for a long time, it has not mattered if republicans or democrats were in power, different party, same old crap.
Rights are like muscles, when they are not exercised they atrophy.

Hazcat

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Re: What to expect from Socialist health care
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2009, 08:41:42 AM »
A Fight For Our Way of Life: Socialized Medicine vs. A Voice from Our Past

Watch this 7 min vid.  There is a suprise in it. ;)

http://www.pjtv.com/video/Afterburner_/A_Fight_For_Our_Way_of_Life%3A_Socialized_Medicine_vs_A_Voice_from_Our_Past/2041/
All tipoes and misspelings are copi-righted.  Pleeze do not reuse without ritten persimmons  :D

 

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