Author Topic: EMP & Electronic Gun Safe Locks  (Read 27465 times)

twyacht

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Re: EMP & Electronic Gun Safe Locks
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2009, 08:44:49 PM »
from blackwolfe,

A place I use to work relied upon modems for remote monitoring.  About two days after we would have a severe electrical storm move through the modems would fail and need to be reprogrammed.  An electronics and tech geek I know told me that lightning causes far more damage to electronics that people realize.  Fail, many times, happens later and people don't associate the failure with the lightnig that happened a few days or weeks before.

The problem with an EMP, is there will be NO REBOOT. Systems that rely on electricity, or electronics, etc,.. will have no foundation to restart. It erases them. Like wiping a cassette tape over a magnet,./.

It will go dark, stay dark, and be dark. Your Honda Generator has a 50/50 chance of not working. Wind mills will generate, tidal gens will work, if you have mechanical motors with no processors. Think old school car starters....

Starfish Prime, Test 184, and others, our gov't did a great job blowing stuff up back in the days when they could. Our military created geomagnetic storms, (thankfully over the ocean), that blew out Hawaii's grid almost a thousand miles away!

EMP's are easier than a nuclear reaction. A Hiroshima/Nagasaki grade weapon, considered antique by today's standards, would shut the North East Down. That would create a reaction rivaling 9/11, and more than one? ...........



Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

fightingquaker13

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Re: EMP & Electronic Gun Safe Locks
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2009, 08:52:44 PM »
FQ, why not learn how to use it and use as an honor your stepfather?
You know, blackwolfe, that's a damn good question. I wish it was him teaching me, but maybe a little DIY would not go amiss here.
thanks
FQ13

Rastus

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Re: EMP & Electronic Gun Safe Locks
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2009, 09:34:58 PM »
.....The problem with an EMP, is there will be NO REBOOT. Systems that rely on electricity, or electronics, etc,.. will have no foundation to restart. It erases them. Like wiping a cassette tape over a magnet,./.

It will go dark, stay dark, and be dark. Your Honda Generator has a 50/50 chance of not working. Wind mills will generate, tidal gens will work, if you have mechanical motors with no processors. Think old school car starters....

Starfish Prime, Test 184, and others, our gov't did a great job blowing stuff up back in the days when they could. Our military created geomagnetic storms, (thankfully over the ocean), that blew out Hawaii's grid almost a thousand miles away!

EMP's are easier than a nuclear reaction. A Hiroshima/Nagasaki grade weapon, considered antique by today's standards, would shut the North East Down. That would create a reaction rivaling 9/11, and more than one? ...........

http://www.onesecondafter.com/pb/wp_d10e87d9/wp_d10e87d9.html

It's worse than wiping off a magnetic tape...or hard drive.  EMP actually generates a current and voltage that will fry processors.  It's not that they are wiped clean, it's that they are burnt out.  They don't have to be on, they don't have to be outside, they don't even have to be installed, they are wiped out. 

The link above will take you lots of places...I read the book (Thanks for the referral Mr. Bane) because I've had an interest in EMP events for nearly two decades now.  It's a booger...what do you do when the power goes out and no one dies today....it's insidious, people will die out over a year's time.  First the people on meds and med support...the heart and diabetic med people...it's not just about electricity...it's that everything tied to a microprocessor will stop until it get's new ones...and since the manufacturers (except overseas maybe) will be down, the nations commercial air fleet that was airborne is a scrap heap, trains are stuck in place won't run, cars are stopped on the side of the road...it'll be a while folks.  Three days of food stocked in the local grocery is the average...then that's gone....and no way to transport more into the cities.  It'll be medieval and gruesome if it ever happens.

Water and sewer services go down, people drink dirty water, things we haven't seen in a century here kill out a huge % of the population in a few weeks.  Refineries...down for a year or more, no gas for those generators that won't survive unless grounded with the electronics removed and buried.  Will something like this ever happen...I hope not.  Is it possible...shortly.

In case ya'll forgot...and you probably never saw that news...but in the late 90's the idiot in North Korea fired a missile...nose cone made it to the Aleutians Islands.  Now, he's firing one towards Hawaii on the 4th of July.  I have doubts he can reach us now...but shortly.

So...all this being said and under the scrutiny of ridicule about tin hats...do you also remember all of the educated people, journalists, politicians that said Reagan's Star Wars program would not work?  They said you couldn't perform a kinetic kill.  They were wrong and we're dang lucky to have a measure of protections with our current ABM systems.  W got that part right, even if he did screw up on the border.

Three or four nukes detonated above us in the right places can kill hundreds of millions by disrupting the machinery and systems that run our society....three or four nukes detonated in cities...minor in comparison.

Back to the safe question, I sent an email to Canon to see if I can convert to a mechanical lock system.

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Timothy

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Re: EMP & Electronic Gun Safe Locks
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2009, 09:44:07 PM »
One nuke of enough size, detonated at altitude over Central Kansas, could shut down the CONUS in a nanosecond.....lights out! 

Rastus

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Re: EMP & Electronic Gun Safe Locks
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2009, 09:53:56 PM »
One nuke of enough size, detonated at altitude over Central Kansas, could shut down the CONUS in a nanosecond.....lights out! 

Or enhanced, like a neutron enhanced weapon. 
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
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Re: EMP & Electronic Gun Safe Locks
« Reply #25 on: Today at 02:07:33 PM »

fightingquaker13

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Re: EMP & Electronic Gun Safe Locks
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2009, 10:05:18 PM »
Yep! Thats the problem. Karl Marx (who was a damn good economic historian, politics aside) observed in volume three ::) of Das Kapital, that the the measure of society's progress was how many tools it took to make the tools we use to make other tools. We had a healthy and prosperous society in the 19th century without electricity, because the tool making infra-structure was designed to support it. Even though we obviously have that knowledge now, we don't have the infrastructure to reproduce it. Everything requires electronics to make it work. As a very simple for instance, TW and I live within 70 miles of each other. Now, if I wanted to find him,, I could do so in seconds. If the grid is down, he might as well be on the dark side of the moon. We WILL revert to the dark ages when the food runs out, the cop's radios don't work, their cars won't start and they decide that protecting their own families is more important than protecting us. Who will show up for work? Who will try to go through 100 year old manuals to find a work around.? Even if they do, what are the odds a mine owner will do the same to produce the coal or steel, and who will ship it, and how will the three find each other? It will be Mad Max. People fighting over the dwindling scraps of stuff we can't replace, but have the capacity to build if only we could communicate. Yet we won't be able to. Its what happens when stuff gets too complex, out sourced too far from home and too dependant on very fragile communications networks.
FQ13 who says a country boy can survive, and has 1 months fuel, food water and ammo every hurricane season to make sure that's thecase

Dharmaeye

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Re: EMP & Electronic Gun Safe Locks
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2009, 10:07:41 PM »

True_Texan

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Re: EMP & Electronic Gun Safe Locks
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2009, 01:45:47 AM »
One thing you have to understand about an electromagnetic pulse is it has to be absorbed by something. The closer to the source the smaller the object would be to have to absorb enough to damage it.

A computer that is sitting completely unplugged from everything around it, will not be as affected by an EMP as your microwave plugged into the outlet. Same goes for an electronic lock on a safe. It wouldn't be bothered by an EMP either. I have a safe with an electronic lock. It uses 2 9-volt batteries to power everything. If you try an tamper with it, you will never be able to open it short of a very large torch and saw. The use of the internal power source keeps it disconnected from "The Grid".

Most people fail to realize that EMP strikes happen every day. The sun gives off a lot of these pulses that effect the earth. Cell phones don't work as well, Over-the-Air TV doesn't come in clearly, or CB radios won't reach as far.The atmosphere absorbs most of it, but even a nuke detonated within our atmosphere wouldn't affect EVERY SINGLE electronic around. Solid state devices may take more damage but most would still survive. Electronics would have to have enough metallic mass (like power lines for instance) to absorb enough electromagnetic radiation to cause a failure.

Think of it like a lightning strike. Just because your TV fries out when your house gets struck, doesn't mean your cell phone sitting on the counter will fry too.
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Rob10ring

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Re: EMP & Electronic Gun Safe Locks
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2009, 03:56:40 AM »
Didn't Michael Bane have a Canon Safe that's electronic lock went kablooey? I think there's a post somewhere on here. It was on his Blog too.
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2008/12/cannon-safe-failure.html
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2008/12/more-thoughts-on-cannon-safe-failure.html

I think there were follow ups that led him to go with another manufacturer.

Rastus

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Re: EMP & Electronic Gun Safe Locks
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2009, 06:25:47 AM »
...A computer that is sitting completely unplugged from everything around it, will not be as affected by an EMP as your microwave plugged into the outlet. Same goes for an electronic lock on a safe. It wouldn't be bothered by an EMP either. ...

Most people fail to realize that EMP strikes happen every day. The sun gives off a lot of these pulses that effect the earth. Cell phones don't work as well, Over-the-Air TV doesn't come in clearly, or CB radios won't reach as far.The atmosphere absorbs most of it, but even a nuke detonated within our atmosphere wouldn't affect EVERY SINGLE electronic around. ....

We should all review, in detail, the literature that's out there.  Sure, if you are 2,000 miles from an event you'll be OK unplugged, 1,000 miles, not so much.  Your equipment doesn't have to be plugged into the power grid to be damaged....the pulse amplified by the Compton effect in the upper atmosphere will enhance the reaction and actually generate a current within a discreet component (even if it's on the shelf for a replacement somewhere, like for your car computer).  The EMP events referred to as a daily occurrence are orders of magnitude (an order of magnitude is a log scale measurement where, starting as low as, for example, 0.01, then next is 0.1, then 1.0 then 10, then 1000, then 10,000, then 100,000 then 1,000,000 and so on...) greater than the day to day occurences we see.  

Sometimes the natural events are responsible for power outages in Canada and they've designed for it....but an EMP event will be much stronger than a natural event.  In fact, a solar event in the mid 1800's took out telegraph service in the US, much more robust a system than our cell towers, computers, power grid, car computers, industrial equipment, etc. of today.  The solar events generally are tied to power lines to generate the current...and EMP event is different in it's characteristics and far more severe than anything we've seen from a solar event.  

Unplugging won't help if you are "near" an EMP event....that's one of the things that is so catastrophic about it.  Your battery in your car will be OK...your ignition system will be fried.  Good thing is, EMP is basically line-of-sight and it does have a limit to it's extent, so it would take several to knock out the entire US.

Again, read the literature that's out there and attempt to discount what internet experts have to say.  There are some declassified Mil-spec documents on how to measure and protect from EMP that can help and, if you've a bit of electronics savvy, you can read them for yourself and assess the level of damage that can be experienced from an EMP event.  Also take a look at how an underground power grid was taken out in Russia during some nuclear tests...the severity caught everyone offguard and reinforced that EMP effects can find their way into Faraday cages built for the protection of systems that does not have proper protection for ingoing and outgoing lines.  
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
-William Pitt, British Prime-Minister (1759-1806)
                                                                                                                               Avoid subjugation, join the NRA!

 

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