Author Topic: A Few Bad Apples  (Read 2661 times)

long762range

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A Few Bad Apples
« on: June 27, 2009, 12:45:03 AM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/27/us/27arizona.html?pagewanted=all

New Border Fear: Militia Violence

ARIVACA, Ariz. — “Somebody just came in and shot my daughter and my husband!” the woman shouted to the 911 dispatcher. “They’re coming back in! They’re coming back in!”

Multiple gunshots are then heard on a tape of the call.

The woman, Gina Gonzalez, survived the attack after arming herself with her husband’s handgun, but both he and their 10-year-old daughter died.

The killings, last month, have terrified this small town near the Mexican border, in part because the authorities have now tied them to what they describe as a rogue group engaged in citizen border patrols.

The three people arrested in the crime include the leader of Minutemen American Defense, a Washington State-based offshoot of the Minutemen movement, in which citizens roam the border looking for people crossing into the country illegally. Former members describe the group’s leader, Shawna Forde, 41, as having anti-immigrant sentiments that are extreme, at times frightening, even to people accustomed to hard-line views on border policing.

The authorities say that the three suspects were after money and drugs that they intended to use to finance vigilantism, and that members of the group may have been involved in at least one other home invasion, in California.

“There was an anticipation that there would be a considerable amount of cash at this location,” said Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, since, he said, Ms. Gonzalez’s husband, Raul J. Flores, had previously been involved in narcotics trafficking, an assertion the family denies.

A Pima County public defender representing Ms. Forde had no comment on the case. Nor did lawyers for the other suspects, Jason E. Bush, 34, and Albert R. Gaxiola, 42. All three remain in custody, charged with first-degree murder, assault and burglary.

Merrill Metzger, who worked for the group for six months just as it was getting started in 2007, said Ms. Forde had often traveled from Washington to Arizona with weapons. In March, while stopping over at his home in Redding, Calif., she presented a plan for the group to undertake, Mr. Metzger, her half-brother, said in a telephone interview.

“She was sitting here talking about how she was going to start an underground militia and rob drug dealers,” he said.

Mr. Metzger quit the group, alarmed, he said, by a number of things, including Ms. Forde’s demand for extreme loyalty, right down to the choice of cuisine.

“I had to take an oath, and part of the oath was that I couldn’t eat Mexican food,” he said. “That’s when red flags went up all over for me. That seemed like prejudice.”

Another former member, Chuck Stonex, a retired independent contractor, said Ms. Forde had talked about buying a ranch near Arivaca and building a compound. He said that in October, he took an excursion with her into the desert north of here, where, wearing camouflage and carrying handguns and rifles, they searched for illegal immigrants.

“It’s just like hunting,” Mr. Stonex said, describing the tracking skills the group used. “If you’re going out hunting deer, you want to scout around and get an idea what their pattern is, what trails they use.”

Mr. Stonex said he treated one of the suspects, Mr. Bush, for a flesh wound the day of the attack on Ms. Gonzalez’s family. Ms. Gonzalez had presumably shot Mr. Bush in warding off the attackers, but, Mr. Stonex said, the wound did not raise his suspicions, because, he said, Ms. Forde offered what seemed a plausible explanation: “They’d been jumped by border bandits.”

“They were very relaxed, having casual, normal chitchat,” he recalled.

Small numbers of Americans have always viewed border patrolling as a patriotic duty, but the most recent incarnation — the Minutemen movement, which takes its name from citizen militias formed during the Revolutionary War — gained steam in 2005, when hundreds of volunteers flocked to border locations.

Their patrols initially drew praise from some political leaders, including Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger of California, but also raised concerns that the activities were thin veils for racism and xenophobia. Over time, the movement has also suffered from infighting, with some groups, like Ms. Forde’s, advocating increasingly confrontational tactics while others have simply monitored the border and reported illegal crossings to the authorities.

Since the killings here, members of some better-known groups involved with the movement have scrambled to disassociate themselves from Minutemen American Defense. Others had begun doing so well beforehand. The 750-member San Diego Minutemen, for instance, started warning people on its Web site in January to avoid Ms. Forde.

According to Ms. Gonzalez’s 911 call, the killers arrived shortly after midnight on May 30, dressed in uniforms resembling those of law enforcement personnel. They told the family that they were looking for a fugitive. Actually, the authorities say, the three suspects believed that Ms. Gonzalez’s husband, Mr. Flores, 29, was holding both drugs and money at their remote home.

Sheriff Dupnik has said there is ample drug activity between here and the border. The suggestion has angered the residents of Arivaca, a town of retirees, artists and working people about 50 miles south of Tucson. “This is a good town,” said Fern Loveall, 76. “It’s a good place to live, and it’s a good place to raise kids. What they’re saying about it isn’t true.”

Members of Mr. Flores’s family also denied that he had had any connection to the drug trade.

“He was a good guy,” said Gilbert Mungaray, his 80-year-old grandfather. “I know what happened, but I can’t imagine why.”

The family’s house was silent this week. An American flag hung on the porch, and three pink roses adorned the front door. Down a dirt road, at the local community center, a picture of Brisenia, the slain daughter of Mr. Flores and Ms. Gonzalez, had been placed in a frame with a small black ribbon affixed to it.

For the regulars at La Gitana Cantina, a friendly establishment with a mixed clientele of Anglos and Mexican-Americans, emotions have ranged from abject sorrow to rage.

“I’ve had people come into the bar and just put their heads in their hands, and all the sudden they’ve got tears pouring down their face,” said Karen Lippert, a bartender. She added that while Mr. Gaxiola was a local, the two other suspects were not.

“This is not us guys,” she said. “It’s the not the way us guys operate.”


Jesse McKinley reported from Arivaca, and Malia Wollan from San Francisco.

"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous.  If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for."

tombogan03884

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Re: A Few Bad Apples
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2009, 10:56:46 AM »
NY reporters should know about ripping off dopers, THEIR COPS do it all the time, same in Miami, probably other places as well but those are the ones that books have been written about.
I think it's GREAT that American citizens are picking up the slack in our border security, since the "elected officials" have a vested interest in letting the Illegals flood in. BUT this group is apparently a bunch of nut cases, no Mexican FOOD ? Come on, For me the food would be a factor in moving there.
Any one who has read my past posts knows I'm no friend of illegal immigrants, but there is no excuse for these citizens to be bothering any one who lives north of the line, without the capabilities of checking information that is available to Cops any one living NORTH of the border gets the benefit of the doubt.
Even if they didn't belong here and WERE involved in drug trafficking there is NO excuse for shooting 10 year olds.

long762range

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Re: A Few Bad Apples
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2009, 11:23:59 AM »
These people a just criminals posing as Minutemen.  I hope they get all they deserve.
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous.  If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for."

PegLeg45

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Re: A Few Bad Apples
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2009, 11:25:30 AM »
Deplorable behavior........ and, I agree with you both.
"I expect perdition, I always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damned disease." ~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo

For the Patriots of this country, the Constitution is second only to the Bible for most. For those who love this country, but do not share my personal beliefs, it is their Bible. To them nothing comes before the Constitution of these United States of America. For this we are all labeled potential terrorists. ~ Dean Garrison

"When it comes to the enemy, just because they ain't pullin' a trigger, doesn't mean they ain't totin' ammo for those that are."~PegLeg

fightingquaker13

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Re: A Few Bad Apples
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2009, 11:35:30 AM »
It is a logical off shoot of a "militia" mentality. By that I mean they identify an enemy, claim (correctly) that the government isn't doing any thing, arm themselvs and, sooner or later, someone is going to decide the ends justify the means. This is too bad as the minute men who function as a neighborhood watch letting an undermanned Border Patrol know where to find illegals they couldn't have spotted otherwise are doing good work. Of course they are armed, as lots of drugs come across that border and you would be an idiot to sit out in the desert at night with only a cell phone and a GPS. But that is very different from playing soldier with loyalty oaths, giving ranks etc. I just hope this doesn't tarnish the whole movement as the Border patrol needs those extra eyes.
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Re: A Few Bad Apples
« Reply #5 on: Today at 11:49:18 AM »

blackwolfe

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Re: A Few Bad Apples
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2009, 12:24:09 PM »
These people a just criminals posing as Minutemen.  I hope they get all they deserve.

Exactly. 
Pretending to be patriotic as a cover for their criminal activity.  I hope there is a hanging tree nearby.
"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. "    Abraham Lincoln
 


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tombogan03884

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Re: A Few Bad Apples
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2009, 12:29:06 PM »
Exactly. 
Pretending to be patriotic as a cover for their criminal activity.  I hope there is a hanging tree nearby.

That describes Congress.

m25operator

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Re: A Few Bad Apples
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2009, 04:52:44 PM »
They are arrested, now apply the law, the door should swing both ways, I'm all for illegal immigrants out, and those who chose to work for it in. IF they want to be American, if not then get a work visa, that's cool too. Regardless if the homeowners were guilty, they were not given due process, and unfortunately let off if the allegations are true, but their 4th amendment rights were violated too. BY Thugs.  Thugs are Thugs or in this case Bugs, and should be treated as such.
" The Pact, to defend, if not TO AVENGE '  Tarna the Tarachian.

runstowin

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Re: A Few Bad Apples
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2009, 09:05:02 PM »
There is a thing called "due process" or maybe these nuts forgot that.
Rights are like muscles, when they are not exercised they atrophy.

fightingquaker13

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Re: A Few Bad Apples
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2009, 09:19:51 PM »
There is a thing called "due process" or maybe these nuts forgot that.
Nope, they didn't forget. Thats the trouble with playing soldier, even for real soldiers (cf Waco {feds, but so militarized its the same principle}). Its just that if you forget that you are supposed to be a cop, even an auxillary cop, rather than a soldier on a battle feild, your view of a situation gets distorted. Its not find a bad guy, gather evidence and send him to trial. It becomes locate a target, eliminate it and move on. They both have their place, but its one reason why I don't like the militarization of American PDs and distrust militias. Sorry if this sounds liberal, but I think its a valid point.
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