Gun Control: What Is the Agenda?

[twyacht]

What is the TRUE agenda of the anti gunners ? Total civilian disarmament so the sheep can be used as the totalitarian globalists wish with out ANY means of resistance. Think Nazi Germany with forced labor, breeding programs, and "Camps" for those who disagree.

Easier to control the sheep with legal drugs? Damn the methadone clinics, when we can put people to work in gov't subsidized "labs" to dish out the real thing.

What is the benefit/endgame?

I agree the War on Drugs is/was a failure that cost many Billions of Dollars, but legalizing drugs, and a relentless anti-gun agenda makes America a better place?

Legalizing pot, BFD, OK, stores "Bonghits-R-Us," bunch of folks listening to music with the munchies, but that is the slippery slope.

Tax it, regulate it, etc,...great Will that stop or slow down the Dumbing Down of this country.

I just don't see it.

[tombogan03884]

What is the TRUE agenda of the anti gunners ? Total civilian disarmament so the sheep can be used as the totalitarian globalists wish with out ANY means of resistance. Think Nazi Germany with forced labor, breeding programs, and "Camps" for those who disagree.

Easier to control the sheep with legal drugs? Damn the methadone clinics, when we can put people to work in gov't subsidized "labs" to dish out the real thing.

What is the benefit/endgame?

I agree the War on Drugs is/was a failure that cost many Billions of Dollars, but legalizing drugs, and a relentless anti-gun agenda makes America a better place?

Legalizing pot, BFD, OK, stores "Bonghits-R-Us," bunch of folks listening to music with the munchies, but that is the slippery slope.

Tax it, regulate it, etc,...great Will that stop or slow down the Dumbing Down of this country.

I just don't see it.

The only results you would see would be, reduction in accidental overdoses ( purity would be standardized or listed like "Proof" on Alcoholic beverages) elimination of drug gang violence, (they would have legal remedies the same as any other business), and a reverse in the cash flow, from BILLIONS going OUT annually to large amounts coming IN, "Drug Cartels" would no longer be taking such a huge profit out of the country annually, Demand would not change, those who want to do drugs now simply ignore the law, Drug abuse problems could be handled in a less stigmatizing fashion, like alcoholism.
A couple more interesting notes, all the "bad" drugs  were previously legal so the things I am pointing out are not theory but historical FACT, secondly like early gun laws, anti some drug laws were passed with a racist eye toward keeping the minorities in "their place".
Third, No prohibition of ANYTHING has ever worked, Not even the prohibitions on letting dogs shit on the side walk.

[twyacht]

I guess I just have absolutely NO faith in the gov't running anything right.

There are plenty of examples.

An anti-gun policy and a legalization or loosening of the drug laws, both are under gov't control, and IMHO, will inherently be a clusterf***.

[tombogan03884]

I guess I just have absolutely NO faith in the gov't running anything right.

There are plenty of examples.

An anti-gun policy and a legalization or loosening of the drug laws, both are under gov't control, and IMHO, will inherently be a clusterf***.

Would you say the same about the unrestricted mail order sales of  suppressors, machine guns and Artillery pieces ?
That was also legal  prior to the banning of some drugs, Were Socialites and Black musicians blasting every one with light cannon ? I'm willing to bet that at least one person you know or work with uses "hard drugs" and you don't even know it. I would go even further and bet that 1/4 of the people you know or work with smoke weed.
We agree on most other things, I urge you to read those books and realize what a load of BS you have been fed.
The Govt lies about EVERYTHING else, what makes you think this is any different ? Because a DEA Agent said so ? Of course he did, otherwise your taxes wouldn't be paying for his house.
Prior to the BO election the #1 most self destructive actions of the US govt since WWII have been the theft of Social Security and continuing the failed war on some drugs.

[twyacht]

My wife's brother was a functioning heroine addict for over twenty years, he was also a freakin' genius and had a surveying job, and an engineering degree, worked for the City of Baltimore for over 10 years.  Had a maintenance habit that nobody could ever tell he ever had, until that day.....

He got a batch of bad stuff and had his own sister have to get the super. to open his apt. after two days of being MIA.

Shot up in the bathroom, stumbled to his bed and collapsed, waste of a good man.

My Uncle Otto, was 6'4 and 205 lbs. Absolute great looking man with the brains to boot. While at his townhouse on a lake in Miami, an 11 year old boy flipped his kayak in an approaching T-storm, and had no PFD  50 feet from shore. As he was, Otto ran out jumped in and attempted to save him, since his friend showed him a great new "high". they both drowned. He was 27 years old.

My mother died of alcohol abuse at 58 years old. She was a former model in Miami, (before I was born), and was a Playboy Bunny at the Miami Beach Club, and raced boats until she got married. My sister and I literally had an "intervention" with court backing and after the 72 hour hold time she walked herself out, and was dead shortly there after, alone in her house, that my sister and I had to pack up and deal with.

I, unlike Bill Clinton, did inhale, and fought my own demons with different "illegal" substances, The birth of my son, and the Grace of God, gave me another chance. Yes, I still like beer, wine, and the occasional Mojito. But drugs and I can and will never meet again.

I don't want the gov't to be an enabler to the self destructive pattern that drugs inherently have, encountered personally, and would not wish on anyone. Yes, LEGAL drugs can and are abused everyday. Doctor shopping, etc,....Anna Nicole Smith, Rush Limbaugh, etc,...I know.

Anti-gun legislation is already too regulated; everything is, and it's getting worse. That too, is self destructive to a nation.

I will respectfully disagree with a legalization policy.and acknowledge that the War on Drugs was and is a failure. A legalization policy would be the same, ask Amsterdam. I also vehemently disagree, (as we both do), with any anti-gun policy.

The 2nd Amend isn't for the guns you like, it's for the one's you hate. Politicians, will never "get that", but I will fight for that.

Rant off. Probably typed off more than I should.

I will read the books by Elder and Koppel, I like Elder, he's a sharp guy.

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

And this, Tw, is why I like this forum. You, Tom and I have said all we can say on the issue. We have (hopefully) taught a bit, learned a bit and can respectfully agree to disagree. Not too bad for the net.
Peace
FQ13

[Timothy]

All due respect to your losses TW but alcohol IS a drug.  One that indirectly kills about 100,000 people in the US every year.

http://www.gdcada.org/statistics/alcohol.htm

When I decided to stop, I stopped everything.  The cigarettes were the last and the hardest.

[ericire12]

My wife's brother was a functioning heroine addict for over twenty years, he was also a freakin' genius and had a surveying job, and an engineering degree, worked for the City of Baltimore for over 10 years.  Had a maintenance habit that nobody could ever tell he ever had, until that day.....

He got a batch of bad stuff and had his own sister have to get the super. to open his apt. after two days of being MIA.

Shot up in the bathroom, stumbled to his bed and collapsed, waste of a good man.

My Uncle Otto, was 6'4 and 205 lbs. Absolute great looking man with the brains to boot. While at his townhouse on a lake in Miami, an 11 year old boy flipped his kayak in an approaching T-storm, and had no PFD  50 feet from shore. As he was, Otto ran out jumped in and attempted to save him, since his friend showed him a great new "high". they both drowned. He was 27 years old.

My mother died of alcohol abuse at 58 years old. She was a former model in Miami, (before I was born), and was a Playboy Bunny at the Miami Beach Club, and raced boats until she got married. My sister and I literally had an "intervention" with court backing and after the 72 hour hold time she walked herself out, and was dead shortly there after, alone in her house, that my sister and I had to pack up and deal with.

I, unlike Bill Clinton, did inhale, and fought my own demons with different "illegal" substances, The birth of my son, and the Grace of God, gave me another chance. Yes, I still like beer, wine, and the occasional Mojito. But drugs and I can and will never meet again.

I don't want the gov't to be an enabler to the self destructive pattern that drugs inherently have, encountered personally, and would not wish on anyone. Yes, LEGAL drugs can and are abused everyday. Doctor shopping, etc,....Anna Nicole Smith, Rush Limbaugh, etc,...I know.

Anti-gun legislation is already too regulated; everything is, and it's getting worse. That too, is self destructive to a nation.

I will respectfully disagree with a legalization policy.and acknowledge that the War on Drugs was and is a failure. A legalization policy would be the same, ask Amsterdam. I also vehemently disagree, (as we both do), with any anti-gun policy.

The 2nd Amend isn't for the guns you like, it's for the one's you hate. Politicians, will never "get that", but I will fight for that.

Rant off. Probably typed off more than I should.

I will read the books by Elder and Koppel, I like Elder, he's a sharp guy.

You know... If I had not already given out the Comment of The Day Award, you would have been the recipient.

http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=7362.msg93736#msg93736

[Kid Shelleen]

My wife's brother was a functioning heroine addict for over twenty years, he was also a freakin' genius and had a surveying job, and an engineering degree, worked for the City of Baltimore for over 10 years.  Had a maintenance habit that nobody could ever tell he ever had, until that day.....

He got a batch of bad stuff and had his own sister have to get the super. to open his apt. after two days of being MIA.

Shot up in the bathroom, stumbled to his bed and collapsed, waste of a good man.

My Uncle Otto, was 6'4 and 205 lbs. Absolute great looking man with the brains to boot. While at his townhouse on a lake in Miami, an 11 year old boy flipped his kayak in an approaching T-storm, and had no PFD  50 feet from shore. As he was, Otto ran out jumped in and attempted to save him, since his friend showed him a great new "high". they both drowned. He was 27 years old.

My mother died of alcohol abuse at 58 years old. She was a former model in Miami, (before I was born), and was a Playboy Bunny at the Miami Beach Club, and raced boats until she got married. My sister and I literally had an "intervention" with court backing and after the 72 hour hold time she walked herself out, and was dead shortly there after, alone in her house, that my sister and I had to pack up and deal with.

I, unlike Bill Clinton, did inhale, and fought my own demons with different "illegal" substances, The birth of my son, and the Grace of God, gave me another chance. Yes, I still like beer, wine, and the occasional Mojito. But drugs and I can and will never meet again.

I don't want the gov't to be an enabler to the self destructive pattern that drugs inherently have, encountered personally, and would not wish on anyone. Yes, LEGAL drugs can and are abused everyday. Doctor shopping, etc,....Anna Nicole Smith, Rush Limbaugh, etc,...I know.

Anti-gun legislation is already too regulated; everything is, and it's getting worse. That too, is self destructive to a nation.

I will respectfully disagree with a legalization policy.and acknowledge that the War on Drugs was and is a failure. A legalization policy would be the same, ask Amsterdam. I also vehemently disagree, (as we both do), with any anti-gun policy.

The 2nd Amend isn't for the guns you like, it's for the one's you hate. Politicians, will never "get that", but I will fight for that.

Rant off. Probably typed off more than I should.

I will read the books by Elder and Koppel, I like Elder, he's a sharp guy.

+100 TW.

I lived in the US Virgin Islands for a few years (Hurricaine Hugo ended that, but that's another story). Drugs there were illegal but might as well have been perfectly legal. They were widespread, rampant and very socially accepted, especially cocaine. I saw many intelligent, prosperous, respected, business owners, doctors, lawyers and Indian Chiefs develop severe problems and ruin what had been good lives.

About 2 years after Hugo, my old boss called me and said that he had rebuilt and asked me to come back. I had found and married my wife and adopted her 4 y/o son. There was no way that I wanted to raise my children in an environment where drugs were common place, accepted and generally thought of as perfectly OK. In every other way St. Thomas was paradise and I loved it there when I was single (after I'd been there they changed the name to just the U.S. Islands ). As I said, I loved it there and I was getting paid to scuba dive every day. It was heaven on earth, but I'd seen what (escentially legalized) drugs did to ruin peoples lives. I don't ever want to see that on the U.S. mainland.

I feel very badly for all of the drug related tragedies in your life and I would never want to see the widespread destruction of lives and families that would occur on a massive scale, should drugs be legalized. Booze is bad enough. Why heap on the misery. The countless people with bad drug problems in St. Thomas was staggering. St. Thomas is a small island, only 15 miles long and 9 miles wide at the widest point, yet many, many people there had serious and very dangerous drug addictions. I blame this on the overall acceptance of drugs by society as a whole there. If drugs were legalized in the U.S. and the per capita abuse was as bad, it would bring our nation to it's knees even faster than BHO is doing in his short time as POTUS.

Keep fighting the good fight and with your wisdom and God's grace may you never slip.

I'm highly opposed to gun regulation, but eternally grateful for drug regulations. Flawed as our system is, it beats the hell out of legalization and acceptance. Just my opinion but based on some sobering reality.