piracy and self defense

[deepwater]

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=5009

damned potiticians!

Piracy And The Right To Self Defense
 
Friday, June 26, 2009
 
Last month we reported on the arming of merchant mariners to allow them to defend their crews and ships from pirate attacks.  We noted that, with the increase in pirate attacks on the high seas, many are now realizing that firearms and armed citizens can be as effective a criminal deterrent at sea, as they are on land. 

The International Maritime Organization’s (IMO) Maritime Safety Committee (MSC) wrapped up a meeting earlier this month, where it agreed on “revised guidance on combating piracy and armed robbery against ships.”

Among other things, the report recommends “guidance to shipmasters and crew…who may be kidnapped or held hostage for ransom, based on the current United Nations guidance on ‘surviving as a hostage.’”

As hard as it is to believe, the MSC report concludes that, “flag States should strongly discourage the carrying and use of firearms by seafarers for personal protection or for the protection of a ship. Seafarers, it was agreed, are civilians and the use of firearms requires special training and aptitudes and the risk of accidents with firearms carried on board ship is great. Carriage of arms on board ship may encourage attackers to carry firearms or even more dangerous weapons, thereby escalating an already dangerous situation. Any firearm on board may itself become an attractive target for an attacker. Carriage of firearms may pose an even greater danger if the ship is carrying flammable cargo or similar types of dangerous goods.”

These recommendations defy reason, given that the pirates are already heavily armed and  know vessels are easy targets due to the high level of probability that seamen are unarmed.


By contrast, U.S. Representative Frank LoBiondo (R-NJ) has introduced H.R. 2984--the “United States Mariner and Vessel Protection Act of 2009.”  The purpose of the Act is to assist in the defense of United States-flag vessels against piracy and to ensure the traditional right of self-defense of those vessels against piracy.


Commenting on the measure, Rep. LoBiondo, the ranking member of the U.S. House of Representatives Coast Guard and Maritime Transportation subcommittee, said: “Our merchant marine fleet is increasingly under attack from unlawful individuals and rogue groups that seek to disrupt commerce, seize U.S. and foreign crews, and instill fear on international waters.  It is only appropriate that our fleets be legally allowed to defend themselves from these violent encounters. This common-sense legislation is a necessary step in empowering U.S.-flagged vessels to protect their crews and cargo.”

[fightingquaker13]

I am, for once (almost) speechless. That level of stupity, learn how to be a good hostage, don't try to prevent yourself from becoming one in the first place is truly mindboggling.
FQ13

[MikeBjerum]

Carriage of arms on board ship may encourage attackers to carry firearms or even more dangerous weapons, thereby escalating an already dangerous situation.

Isn't this already the issue?

If the pirates weren't carrying firearms and other aggressive weapons there wouldn't be a need for this level of protection.

[deepwater]

I've mentioned before that I have yet to meet a single (not 1) mariner that does not want some kind of firearm/ security team, or whatever onboard to protect them. not a single one. and some of these are real liberals. the fact is that the pirates will attack and there is nothing to be done. police? Navy? it will take the Navy too long to get to you. days, maybe weeks. this is just retarded!

[Pathfinder]

I've mentioned before that I have yet to meet a single (not 1) mariner that does not want some kind of firearm/ security team, or whatever onboard to protect them. not a single one. and some of these are real liberals. the fact is that the pirates will attack and there is nothing to be done. police? Navy? it will take the Navy too long to get to you. days, maybe weeks. this is just retarded!

No, it is the Plan. If people learn they can protect themselves, if people learn to be responsible, then they do not need the nanny gummint to protect them and be responsible for them.

Not retarded at all, just very cunning.

[Sponsor]

[JC5123]

No, it is the Plan. If people learn they can protect themselves, if people learn to be responsible, then they do not need the nanny gummint to protect them and be responsible for them.

Not retarded at all, just very cunning.

Fully agree with you there. That's why we are being force fed national health care. I hope that more people will wake up and realize that they are being forced into dependency. This is the first stage of becoming a slave nation. If you think I'm being over dramatic, check with me again when we are paying 70-90% of our income in taxes.

[PegLeg45]

Fully agree with you there. That's why we are being force fed national health care. I hope that more people will wake up and realize that they are being forced into dependency. This is the first stage of becoming a slave nation. If you think I'm being over dramatic, check with me again when we are paying 70-90% of our income in taxes.

You said a mouthful there.

[Rastus]

Fully agree with you there. That's why we are being force fed national health care. I hope that more people will wake up and realize that they are being forced into dependency. This is the first stage of becoming a slave nation. If you think I'm being over dramatic, check with me again when we are paying 70-90% of our income in taxes.

When you think about it, we may have already passed the first few stages by...but that's just me.  Remember, they only tax what's easy...what's in accounts of some sort.  Did you ever think about all of those dollars of yours in the bank....used to be just ink on a ledger..now they are magnetic states in a storage device. 

POOF!

[twyacht]

Let's review...

American Ship taken hostage recently.
Crew in lifeboat with ARMED pirates.
After a few days, Seal Team EXTERMINATES pirates.

That's all good. But likely would have been avoided to begin with if the ship had some AR's even civilian versions, and training.
5 AR's blazing through 30 rd. mags each, makes it tough to approach. PERIOD.

quote from MSC:
“flag States should strongly discourage the carrying and use of firearms by seafarers for personal protection or for the protection of a ship. Seafarers, it was agreed, are civilians and the use of firearms requires special training and aptitudes and the risk of accidents with firearms carried on board ship is great. Carriage of arms on board ship may encourage attackers to carry firearms or even more dangerous weapons, thereby escalating an already dangerous situation. Any firearm on board may itself become an attractive target for an attacker. Carriage of firearms may pose an even greater danger if the ship is carrying flammable cargo or similar types of dangerous goods.”

WTF?   

Guns are carried on private vessels, commercial charters, and have been on board ships with all kinds of dangerous cargo for decades.

Is this MSC for real?

As far as an attractive target for the attacker, a Ma Duece with a sign that says: "Pirate photos free, look here, wait for flash."

would be fine. Hell, Israeli security teams defended a cruise ship with nothing but handguns and some courage to shoot the hell back.

[Pathfinder]

Let's review...

American Ship taken hostage recently.
Crew in lifeboat with ARMED pirates.
After a few days, Seal Team EXTERMINATES pirates.

That's all good. But likely would have been avoided to begin with if the ship had some AR's even civilian versions, and training.
5 AR's blazing through 30 rd. mags each, makes it tough to approach. PERIOD.

quote from MSC:
“flag States should strongly discourage the carrying and use of firearms by seafarers for personal protection or for the protection of a ship. Seafarers, it was agreed, are civilians and the use of firearms requires special training and aptitudes and the risk of accidents with firearms carried on board ship is great. Carriage of arms on board ship may encourage attackers to carry firearms or even more dangerous weapons, thereby escalating an already dangerous situation. Any firearm on board may itself become an attractive target for an attacker.[/b] Carriage of firearms may pose an even greater danger if the ship is carrying flammable cargo or similar types of dangerous goods.”

Guns are carried on private vessels, commercial charters, and have been on board ships with all kinds of dangerous cargo for decades.

Is this MSC for real?

As far as an attractive target for the attacker, a Ma Duece with a sign that says: "Pirate photos free, look here, wait for flash."

would be fine. Hell, Israeli security teams defended a cruise ship with nothing but handguns and some courage to shoot the hell back.

OK, so the BGs are already using full-auto AKs and RPGs. So what did this outfit miss that they think (? ? ? ) would cause the BGs to encourage them to? And would they escalate to?

Like I said earlier, they just want us to keep saying, over and over

"You're from the gummint and you're here to help . . . "

"You're from the gummint and you're here to help . . . "

"You're from the gummint and you're here to help . . . "