Author Topic: This Isn't right !  (Read 2513 times)

tombogan03884

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This Isn't right !
« on: July 26, 2009, 04:55:20 PM »
Death row should mean DEAD SOON, They didn't keep McViegh around long.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090726/ap_on_re_us/us_home_invasion

NEW HAVEN, Conn. – At 52, Dr. William Petit faces years — perhaps decades — of emotionally draining court hearings before the two men charged with murdering his family in a 2007 home invasion may be convicted and executed.

He'll have to listen repeatedly to the horrific details of the crimes against his wife, who was strangled, and two daughters, who were tied to their beds. All three died of smoke inhalation from a fire police say the intruders set as they fled Petit's house after holding the family hostage for hours. Petit, a prominent physician who was beaten during the ordeal, will sit feet away from the defendants as they assert their rights and file appeal after appeal.

As lawmakers weigh the future of the death penalty in some states, officials are giving greater weight to the effect of prolonged death penalty cases on victims' families. Petit realizes that the case might drag on for years, but he remains committed to seeing defendants Steven Hayes and Joshua Komisarjevsky put to death.

Defense attorneys said this week in court that their offer to plead guilty in exchange for life in prison could have ended it all. But they said prosecutors refused because they want to win death sentences.

A trial could begin in January.

Petit countered that an attorney for Hayes was trying to shift blame to him and prosecutors for not accepting a plea bargain, "when it was his client who helped kill three innocent people."

Commissions in New Jersey and Maryland in recent years found that death penalty cases are more harmful to the families of victims than cases that end with life sentences.

"The commission finds that regardless of whether or not a survivor supports an execution, years of court dates, reversals, appeals and exposure to the killer is harmful to the family members of murder victims," the Maryland commission wrote in its report last year.

New Jersey repealed its death penalty in 2007, while Maryland has had a moratorium since 2006.

Across the country, relatives of murder victims say the plodding pace of a death penalty case in court is difficult.

Phyllis Bricker of Baltimore has sat through 26 years of court hearings since her parents were murdered in 1983. Their killer, John Booth-El, remains on death row.

"It's hard on the family, very hard," Bricker said. "Your life is on hold because you never know when another trial is coming up, another appeal is coming up."

One time, Bricker said, the defendant turned to her family and said, "See you next year."

Despite the protracted battle, Bricker said she does not favor a sentence of life without parole. She said that option did not exist at the time of the crime and she's skeptical prisoners would be kept behind bars for life.

The Rev. Cathy Harrington's daughter, Leslie Ann Mazzara, was killed in 2004 in California. A 2007 plea agreement was reached in which her convicted killer, Eric Copple, got life in prison.

"I could see us exhaling," Harrington said of her family at the sentencing. "I hadn't realized how tense we were. I didn't have any room to really grieve properly. I was so busy trying to get through this, never knowing when the phone rang who it was going to be."

Harrington has written an essay about her daughter for a book and is studying for a doctorate focusing on restorative justice. Her sons are building a cottage for abused children in Leslie's memory.

"I'm so busy. I'm tired, but I feel like I can maybe start to live my life now," Harrington said.

She said Petit has the right to favor the death penalty in his case.

Hayes and Komisarjevsky, who were on parole after serving prison time for burglary, are accused of breaking into Petit's home, beating him and forcing his wife to withdraw thousands of dollars from a bank before they strangled her. They've pleaded not guilty to capital felony murder, sexual assault, kidnapping and arson.

Republican Gov. M. Jodi Rell in June vetoed a bill to abolish the death penalty, saying the state cannot tolerate people who commit particularly heinous murders.

Petit has taken on an active role, participating in fundraisers in memory of his family that benefit the causes they championed and lobbying lawmakers not to repeal the death penalty.

He thanked Rell for her veto and called capital punishment "what is required to maintain the fabric of our society."

A Quinnipiac poll released Nov. 7, 2007, less than four months after the killings found that 73 percent of Connecticut voters believed the two suspects in the Cheshire murders should be executed, while 23 percent said they shouldn't.

Gun permit applications in Cheshire, about 14 miles north of New Haven, jumped substantially after the Petits were attacked.

The General Assembly passed new laws that lengthen sentences for repeat offenders, revamp the parole system and create a new crime of home invasion.

Connecticut has 10 men on death row, including a few sentenced 20 years ago. Besides appeals, a lawsuit alleging racial disparity in death sentences is delaying executions.

If Hayes and Komisarjevsky are convicted and sentenced to die, their appeals could easily continue for decades. In 2005, Connecticut serial killer Michael Ross was the first person executed in New England in 45 years — even after waiving his appeals, Ross was behind bars for more than 20 years before he was put to death.

"It was a load off of our shoulders," said Edwin Shelly, whose daughter was Ross' seventh victim. "The hate is gone because there is no one to hate."

Raymond Roode, whose daughter also was killed by Ross, said he is glad Ross was executed.

"The finality of the death penalty is the thing that appeals to me," Roode said. "It doesn't matter how long it takes."

Pathfinder

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Re: This Isn't right !
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2009, 05:15:00 PM »
Being a Christian, and knowing that vengeance belongs solely to the Lord, and as a purely intellectual exercise, I always wondered how hard it would be for a millionaire interested in justice to bribe inmates to whack some of these guys who tie up the system for decades and never allow the victims' families any real peace or closure. IIRC the Aryan Brotherhood specialized in these inmate whackings. Seems to me the other gangs would have similar receptivity. Kind of a conceptual chlorine treatment of the gene pool.

Just an intellectual exercise, and besides, I'm unemployed, and not even close to being a millionaire.
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Re: This Isn't right !
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2009, 05:29:29 PM »
This is actually a "teachable moment".  With an emotional reaction, almost everyone, to a person, would not have a problem dispatching these folks, post haste.  In reality it should be a testament to the total disdain that the founding fathers had to a large, overbearing government.  Some may feel its a bit of a stretch, but the Founding Fathers wanted the "Wheels of Justice" to turn slowly.  There would be no "quickie" trials of convenience.  Tom mentioned Timothy McVeigh.  The scary part there is that was a Federal case... :-X
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twyacht

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Re: This Isn't right !
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2009, 05:41:03 PM »
Jeffrey Dahmer was "accidentally" released into a section of General Population, where lifer's only care about privileges,..

Well, that death sentence was expedited. Maybe, the taxpayers could be saved a lot of money in these tough economic times and just taken out back, behind the prison and shot by firing squad.

5 men,5 bullets, 5 minutes, give em' a cigarette, and end his miserable existence.

but the Founding Fathers wanted the "Wheels of Justice" to turn slowly.

I agree, 90 to 120 days with appeal should suffice.

Save alot of money that way, but we are a "nice and civilized" society, really ask Europe,... >:(

Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

runstowin

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Re: This Isn't right !
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2009, 06:23:04 PM »
This is actually a "teachable moment".  With an emotional reaction, almost everyone, to a person, would not have a problem dispatching these folks, post haste.  In reality it should be a testament to the total disdain that the founding fathers had to a large, overbearing government.  Some may feel its a bit of a stretch, but the Founding Fathers wanted the "Wheels of Justice" to turn slowly.  There would be no "quickie" trials of convenience.  Tom mentioned Timothy McVeigh.  The scary part there is that was a Federal case... :-X

You must mean this slow language from the 6th amendment.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
Rights are like muscles, when they are not exercised they atrophy.

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Re: This Isn't right !
« Reply #5 on: Today at 12:56:12 PM »

tombogan03884

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Re: This Isn't right !
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2009, 07:18:35 PM »
 Broso brings up an interesting point. However, after conviction in a fair trial going by all the rules. I see no reason for PUNISHMENT not to be swift. There is no issue here of "rehabilitation", The Courts have decided that this individual is unfit to participate in society, case closed. For a comparison, if you are convicted of drunk driving you surrender your license before you leave the court house. Same with fines, you pay, or make arrangements to pay, before you leave the building. You DO NOT continue to burden the system and the tax  payers who finance it for years on end. Why should the worst scum in America (After Congress ) be treated any different ?
 If a person is sentenced to death, and is still alive 6 months later there is a flaw in the legal system .

twyacht

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Re: This Isn't right !
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2009, 07:24:51 PM »
Remember Gary Gilmore?


Gary Gilmore was executed by firing squad January 17, 1977, at 8:07 a.m. The night before, Gilmore had requested an all-night gathering of friends and family at the prison mess hall. On the evening before his execution, he was served a last meal consisting of a steak, potatoes, milk and coffee, of which he consumed only the milk and coffee. He was then taken to an abandoned cannery behind the prison which served as the prison's death house. He was strapped to a chair, with a wall of sandbags placed behind him to absorb the bullets. Five gunmen, local police, stood concealed behind a curtain with five small holes cut for them to place their rifles through which were aimed at him. After being asked for any last words, Gilmore simply replied, "Let's do it." The Rev. Thomas Meersman, the Roman Catholic prison chaplain, imparted Gilmore's last rites. After the prison physician cloaked him in a black hood, Gilmore uttered his last words to the Father Meersman:

Gary: Dominus vobiscum (Latin translation: "The Lord be with you.") Meersman: Et cum spiritu tuo ("And with your spirit") Gary: There'll always be a Meersman. [1]


Gilmore had requested that, following his execution, his eyes be used for transplant purposes. Within hours of the execution, two people received his corneas. His body was sent for an autopsy and cremated later that day. The following day, his ashes were scattered from an airplane over Spanish Fork, Provo, and Springville, Utah.

According to his brother Mikal Gilmore's memoir Shot in the Heart, Utah's tradition dictated that a firing squad comprise of five men — four of them with live rounds, and one with a blank round, so that each of the shooters could cast doubt to having fired a fatal shot. However, upon inspecting the clothes worn by Gary Gilmore at his execution, Mikal noticed five holes in the shirt — indicating, he wrote, that "the state of Utah, apparently, had taken no chances on the morning that it put my brother to death" (p. 390).

Yes, and it more cost effective than gas chamber, "the chair" or lethal injection.

The right to speedy trial should include after a 90-120 day appeal process,(which should be granted),...the right to speedy execution of sentence in a capital murder case.

If it's life without parole, so be it, how about at hard labor? If it's a death penalty case, 3 to 4 months is enough time to stay the execution, or get it over with...

Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

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Re: This Isn't right !
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2009, 11:05:17 PM »
My Democratic Socialist Connecticut legislature voted to eliminate the death penalty this year. Even after this crime. Our governor vetoed the bill. Thank goodness.
But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners. [Romans 5:8] ::)

shooter32

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Re: This Isn't right !
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2009, 10:32:24 AM »
Broso brings up an interesting point. However, after conviction in a fair trial going by all the rules. I see no reason for PUNISHMENT not to be swift. There is no issue here of "rehabilitation", The Courts have decided that this individual is unfit to participate in society, case closed. For a comparison, if you are convicted of drunk driving you surrender your license before you leave the court house. Same with fines, you pay, or make arrangements to pay, before you leave the building. You DO NOT continue to burden the system and the tax  payers who finance it for years on end. Why should the worst scum in America (After Congress ) be treated any different ?
 If a person is sentenced to death, and is still alive 6 months later there is a flaw in the legal system .

+1
Absolutely, 6 months and it's death!!

Flaw in the legal system....Where do we begin >:(

A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have. ~ Gerald Ford - August 12, 1974

brosometal

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Re: This Isn't right !
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2009, 12:42:15 PM »
The legal system is backed  up.  If there wasn't a provision for waiving a right to a speedy trial, there would be several folks that, constitutionally would walk free for not having a trial within 90 days.  If I'm not mistaken, in New Orleans this was precisely the problem.  I forget exactly where I saw/read it, but gang bangers there had multiple arrests for homicides.  They went to the local can and if there wasn't a trial within 90 days, they walked free. 

I'm not saying this to be contrary.  There are practical issues involved.  We have the most fair legal system in the world, however the fairness scale can be tipped with the application of money (hint OJ et. al.)  If you look at people that are on death row, most are from the lower income side of the equation.  I don't say this as an excuse, but a statement of fact.  If you are ever involved in a criminal case and use the public defender option, just bend over and grab the ankles.  With the advent of DNA evidence there have been several folks (some on death row) that had trials overturned.  Justice is not always fair, even here in the United States.

I understand the emotional drive to have people "dealt with" quickly.  I also understand that some folks game the system.  I would prefer that some folks hang around a bit longer than they should than the opposite.  I would also like to remind everyone that the justice system is run by the government.  That should be enough to speak volumes.

The person who has nothing for which his is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
- J.S. Mill

 

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