Author Topic: overview of obamacare  (Read 3424 times)

2HOW

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overview of obamacare
« on: July 31, 2009, 09:06:26 AM »
since everybody is talking about it and nobody has read it, here is an overview
http://www.liberty.edu/media/9980/attachments/healthcare_overview_obama_072909.pdf
AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY

Kid Shelleen

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Re: overview of obamacare
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2009, 02:02:44 PM »
Thanks 2How,

I'm not sure where to begin.

Perhaps a simple summary.............................It sucks as much as I've heard. >:(
“What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that the people preserve the spirit of resistance?”

Thomas Jefferson, 1787

tfr270

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Re: overview of obamacare
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2009, 03:41:25 PM »
The summary does seem biased towards the anti health care reform plan side (which is the side I am on). I went ahead and downloaded the HR3200 to reference the points made in the summary. 1017 pages...wow. This will take the weekend to go through. I'm pretty tired of listening to everyone else's opinion (I mean the industry, media & politicians by that) on this without reading it for myself.

2HOW

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Re: overview of obamacare
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2009, 04:58:56 PM »
GOOD, read it and let us all know.
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tfr270

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Re: overview of obamacare
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2009, 08:11:36 PM »
I think everyone should read it for themselves so they know what the heck is written in it, rather than believe all the talking heads and "summaries". That's probably too much to ask of the average sheep, much less the member of congress that will be voting on it...

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Re: overview of obamacare
« Reply #5 on: Today at 01:45:19 PM »

runstowin

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Re: overview of obamacare
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2009, 10:42:47 PM »
I don't actually need to know the details, I already know that communism doesn't work. One problem I see with conservatives is that they get upset over the symptoms, when the real problem is the underlying principle that is being violated.
Rights are like muscles, when they are not exercised they atrophy.

tombogan03884

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Re: overview of obamacare
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2009, 10:57:35 PM »
I don't actually need to know the details, I already know that communism doesn't work. One problem I see with conservatives is that they get upset over the symptoms, when the real problem is the underlying principle that is being violated.

I agree, people bitch about  the stimulus, the attacks on our rights the illegal aliens, Obamacare, and they totaly miss the fact that the country is being run by a bunch of communists. Accept that one fact and everything else BO does makes perfect sense.

tombogan03884

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Re: overview of obamacare
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2009, 04:32:00 PM »
http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2009_07_26-2009_08_01.shtml#1249160012

Hoover Senior Fellow Scott Atlas on Why American Health Care
http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2009_07_26-2009_08_01.shtml#1249160012


   is not as bad as you might have thought and, as it happens, [1]has
   important advantages. (I ran across this in the latest Hoover Digest,
   and then found it had been making the rounds.) Dr. Atlas is also head
   of the neuroradiology department at Stanford Medical School. (Full
   disclosure: I'm also [2]affiliated with Hoover). Dr. Atlas walks
   through a list of ten:

     1. Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common
     cancers. Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany
     than in the United States and 88 percent higher in the United
     Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the
     United Kingdom and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate
     for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40
     percent higher.

     2. Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.
     Breast cancer mortality in Canada is 9 percent higher than in the
     United States, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher, and colon
     cancer among men is about 10 percent higher.

     3. Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases
     than patients in other developed countries. Some 56 percent of
     Americans who could benefit from statin drugs, which reduce
     cholesterol and protect against heart disease, are taking them. By
     comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs,
     only 36 percent of the Dutch, 29 percent of the Swiss, 26 percent
     of Germans, 23 percent of Britons, and 17 percent of Italians
     receive them.

     4. Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than
     Canadians. Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population
     groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical,
     prostate, and colon cancer:

     Nine out of ten middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a
     mammogram, compared to fewer than three-fourths of Canadians (72
     percent).

     Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a Pap smear,
     compared to fewer than 90 percent of Canadians.

     More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a
     prostatespecific antigen (PSA) test, compared to fewer than one in
     six Canadians (16 percent).

     Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy,
     compared with fewer than one in twenty Canadians (5 percent). 5.
     Lower-income Americans are in better health than comparable
     Canadians. Twice as many American seniors with below-median incomes
     self-report âexcellentâ health (11.7 percent) compared to Canadian
     seniors (5.8 percent). Conversely, white, young Canadian adults
     with below-median incomes are 20 percent more likely than
     lower-income Americans to describe their health as âfair or poor.â

     6. Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in
     Canada and the United Kingdom. Canadian and British patients wait
     about twice as longâsometimes more than a yearâto see a specialist,
     have elective surgery such as hip replacements, or get radiation
     treatment for cancer. All told, 827,429 people are waiting for some
     type of procedure in Canada. In Britain, nearly 1.8 million people
     are waiting for a hospital admission or outpatient treatment.

     7. People in countries with more government control of health care
     are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed. More than 70
     percent of German, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and British
     adults say their health system needs either âfundamental changeâ or
     âcomplete rebuilding.â

     8. Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than
     Canadians. When asked about their own health care instead of the
     âhealth care system,â more than half of Americans (51.3 percent)
     are very satisfied with their health care services, compared with
     only 41.5 percent of Canadians; a lower proportion of Americans are
     dissatisfied (6.8 percent) than Canadians (8.5 percent).

     9. Americans have better access to important new technologies such
     as medical imaging than do patients in Canada or Britain. An
     overwhelming majority of leading American physicians identify
     computerized tomography (CT) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI)
     as the most important medical innovations for improving patient
     care during the previous decadeâeven as economists and policy
     makers unfamiliar with actual medical practice decry these
     techniques as wasteful. The United States has thirty-four CT
     scanners per million Americans, compared to twelve in Canada and
     eight in Britain. The United States has almost twenty-seven MRI
     machines per million people compared to about six per million in
     Canada and Britain.

     10. Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health
     care innovations. The top five U.S. hospitals conduct more clinical
     trials than all the hospitals in any other developed country. Since
     the mid- 1970s, the Nobel Prize in medicine or physiology has gone
     to U.S. residents more often than recipients from all other
     countries combined. In only five of the past thirty-four years did
     a scientist living in the United States not win or share in the
     prize. Most important recent medical innovations were developed in
     the United States.

     Despite serious challenges, such as escalating costs and care for
     the uninsured, the U.S. health care system compares favorably to
     those in other developed countries.

References

   1. http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/49525427.html
   2. http://www.hoover.org/bios/Kenneth_Anderson.html

twyacht

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Re: overview of obamacare
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2009, 12:42:12 PM »
Since the gov't has NOT ONE successful operating program, why would I be so optimistic about Obamacare.

If Mass. HC plan is any type of model, a national program will be catastrophic...
Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

m25operator

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Re: overview of obamacare
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2009, 05:03:00 PM »
Tom, your research is awesome as usual, quit trying to get back into machining, and let this part of yourself be your next venture. I think you'd be good at it.

Maybe the Heritage foundation.
" The Pact, to defend, if not TO AVENGE '  Tarna the Tarachian.

 

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