Two Informants Accuse Blackwater Founder of Murder, Other Crimes

[Pathfinder]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/08/informants-accuse-blackwater-founder-murder-crimes/

FTA: "Two men who claim to have worked for the security firm formerly known as Blackwater accused the company's founder and his employees of murder and other extraordinary criminal activities, according to anonymous affidavits filed in federal court this week.

The Nation magazine first reported Tuesday on the affidavits, which are part of a civil lawsuit filed on behalf of several Iraqis against the firm's founder, Erik Prince, and his employees for its alleged abuses in the country.

Taken together, the affidavits charge Blackwater founder Erik Prince with promoting "a culture of lawlessness" that included routine murderous violence against Iraqis, a wife-swapping sex ring, use of child prostitutes and weapons smuggling in bags of dog food.
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The firm, which changed its name to "Xe" earlier this year as part of a re-branding effort, issued a statement saying it would file a brief Aug. 17 in response "to the anonymous unsubstantiated and offensive assertions" made by informants."

[runstowin]

I am interested in how this turns out, Xe what a strange name.

[Kid Shelleen]

I too am very interested to see how this turns out. My bet is that our forum member Combat Diver is now an Xe employee. Blackwater was, at one time, rumored to have as many operatives in Iraq as the U.S. had military personnel.

They have been described as "Americas Private Army" and they play an important role in our overall success in many theaters of operation. I have great respect for the organization and for their employees.

One of my good friends is a former combat Marine who served in Iraq. His service was exemplary and he was Honorably Discharged. He applied to Blackwater after just over two years as a civilian. He wanted to return to Iraq. He was turned down in favor of younger candidates with Special Forces experience. He was offered a job, but not in Iraq or Afganistan.

It appears that their standards are high and that the competition for their jobs is pretty tough.

[twyacht]

Any undermining of "pros" hired to do a job in a combat theater of operations will be targeted by this current admin. and their minions.

Just like Cheney and Halliburton, they soon forget that Clinton OK's them as well, as well as previous POTUS's going back to Jimmy Carter.

[fightingquaker13]

Any undermining of "pros" hired to do a job in a combat theater of operations will be targeted by this current admin. and their minions.

Just like Cheney and Halliburton, they soon forget that Clinton OK's them as well, as well as previous POTUS's going back to Jimmy Carter.

It was a mistake for all of them. Mercenaries are not to be trusted. Prince hides behind the flag waving kind of patriotism and the Bible thumping kind of religion, both are good for show, but at the end of the day, the business is about killing peple for money. There is a reason the Founding Fathers listed the hiring of mercenaries as one on their bill of particulars. in the Declaration "He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation."
The power of the sword should never be "outsoursed".It is a sacred trust we give the government, not to some corporation. As far as I am concerned anyone who has the power of arrest r the right to kill or detain needs to be a sworn agent or a soldier answerable to the UCMJ. Anything less is unaceptable. If this costs more, pay more or don't do it in the first place. America has no need for mercenaries.
FQ13

[Sponsor]

[Pathfinder]

FQ, unlike others here, there is very little you and I agree on.

Like Kid, I have tremendous respect for these folks, they do provide a valuable service for us in doing work the military or others cannot due to funding, staffing, or whatever. Remember these contractors were in a war zone, so yes, the business included the possibility of killing people. Also remember some paid the ultimate price in horrific ways as in Fallujah. Also remember that the State Dept. also hired a lot of these contractors.

Mercenaries in the Revolutionary War did operate under a different set of rules, as did the regular troops, who were also not always well controlled. The very reason for the 3A, as those being quartered often took whatever they liked. Another case of very selective "memory" on your part.

As for your snarky, ad hominum attack on Prince, a man you do not know other than what the MSM has told you, well, I will leave it at that.

[fightingquaker13]

As for your snarky, ad hominum attack on Prince, a man you do not know other than what the MSM has told you, well, I will leave it at that.

Nothing ad hominum about it. Its the way he presents himself publically. As Mark Twain said "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". Given how many sleazeballs we've seen come to Jesus when they get caught I would add religion. I'm not impugning  everyone who works for the company formerly known as Blackwater. I'm merely saying that we, the taxpayer, shouldn't be hiring them to begin with. Couple that with the blanket immunity they were given from prosecution or suit, under civil, military and Iraqi law and this should be a no brainer. Yes they are in Iraq today. What's to keep them from being in the states next week, maybe policing after a Katrina? For someone with as much distrust of the government as you, this should be a no brainer. I think you are letting ideology get in the way of logic.
FQ13

[Pathfinder]

I came back to this thread to add one other point - it is likely these 2 anonymous accusers are former employees with an axe to grind against Blackwater or Prince. The allegations hint at that, given how diverse they are - wife swapping and a culture of lawlessness as management tactics do not build a company like Blackwater, they will tear it apart quickly.

I've also been in contact with an acknowledged former Blackwater employee who can attest to the fact that much of what has been said and written about Blackwater, such as the book by Jeremy Scahill, is false, as he was at the very incidents that Scahill wrote about. He too is waiting to see what the specific allegations are and who the accusers are.

FQ, your follow-up comment shows you are in fact projecting when you say "Given how many sleazeballs we've seen come to Jesus when they get caught I would add religion." You do not know the man, you are guessing.

Also, once again, you provide only a fragmented, incomplete picture of things - do you do this in class as well? I think it is then called "indoctrination".

Twain was right, but your use of his comment misses the point that patriotism is also the first refuge for many people, including a number of us on this site, who evince a strong, passionate belief in this country, its strengths and capabilities, and its foundational documents - the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Perhaps the man is truly patriotic as well as being an entrepreneur.

As for the use of civilian contractors, yeah, I am troubled by that. But I go back to the fact the US military is stretched thin, and many of the contractors did not work for the military, performing jobs that would have taken military troops away from their primary duties of combat actions to conduct security actions. On a limited basis (Iraq) and given the circumstances in that country, I don't have a huge problem with it. That acceptance may change if the gummint starts using "civilian contractors" to augment ACORN and the union thugs at town hall meetings, real issues today rather than the "what if" scenario you posed.

[tombogan03884]

Nothing ad hominum about it. Its the way he presents himself publically. As Mark Twain said "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". Given how many sleazeballs we've seen come to Jesus when they get caught I would add religion. I'm not impugning  everyone who works for the company formerly known as Blackwater. I'm merely saying that we, the taxpayer, shouldn't be hiring them to begin with. Couple that with the blanket immunity they were given from prosecution or suit, under civil, military and Iraqi law and this should be a no brainer. Yes they are in Iraq today. What's to keep them from being in the states next week, maybe policing after a Katrina? For someone with as much distrust of the government as you, this should be a no brainer. I think you are letting ideology get in the way of logic.
FQ13

You are the one letting ideology get in the way of logic, (history actually) . The use of Mercenary troops was normal until around the end of the Napoleonic wars which, in the revolutionary armies of France, saw the birth of the large scale "Citizen Army". Most places Mercenary forces were the only TRAINED troops available. While it is true that in medieval France  they often recruited bandits, it is worth noting that many of those bandits were soldiers thrown out of work by the end of the Crusades. Many mercenary units have a lasting place in history, such as Sir John Hawkwood's White Company, The Kings German Legion which served Wellington at Waterloo, and of course we must not forget the oldest mercenary company in the world, the Vatican's Swiss Guard. As to the accusations leveled against King George for using Mercenaries in America , it was poor rhetoric, just like the anti slavery accusations that he was " waging war on an innocent people". After all, Lafayette did not serve for free. In more recent times how about the British troops who served the Sultan of Oman and the other Emirites in the 60's, the Nung tribesmen we hired in Vietnam ? Or the Afghan tribes we are bribing to support us, they to are mercenaries. I won't go into the use of mercenary troops by the Roman, Greek and Persian Empires.
As to Mr. Princes sincerity since I do not know the man I will only point out that sincerity and altruistic motives do not put food on the table, and the left that you so often support have been attacking them as regularly and consistantly as they have our regular forces.
People like you have been refusing to face the hard facts of life ever since Jefferson and Madison fought the founding of the US Navy, and always for self serving reasons, in their case it had nothing to do with the practicalities (Jefferson actually favored it ) They opposed the building of a navy simply to score political points off Adams and Hamilton, NOT because they were considering what was best for the country.

[Walkeraviator]

I am still on the fence about private contractors.  I respect them for doing what they do, but at the same time, they are not covered under geneva convention, US law, Iraqi law, or any laws aside from their employee handbook.  I dont know...my question is, where do their loyalties lie?  If the highest bidder were Bin Laden, which side would they be fighting on then?

Just a recommendation... Read the book Outsourced by RJ Hillhouse.  It even gets into how the Pentagon and CIA are spending more time watching eachother than the bad guys...