The world confuses me

[Badgersmilk]

O.K.  I admit trying NOT to follow politics more than necessary anymore.  But I think everyone would agree that for the last 15, or 20 years every high tech gizmo they've bought in this country came from Tiawan.  With China overtaking them in the last 5 years or so.

Being a world leader in producing technological products, HOW IS IT their military is still flying Huey's and Chinook helecopters?!?  THEY dont even trust the CRAP they produce enough to use it?!?

[Timothy]

While China is graduating engineers at a rate five times greater than other industrial countries, a Bachelors degree in China is not much more than an Associates in the US and German engineering schools.

They have the capacity to MAKE a lot of stuff, far more than any other nation on the planet.  Their ability do DESIGN anything worth a sh!t is the problem.  Russia had the same problem during the cold war.  They could make a bunch of sh!t but it was litterally SH!T!  Now the Chinese are buying their technology from the Russians so they continue to make junk, just lots of it!

Trying to FORCE people to do their very best is impossible under Communism!  Simple as that!  Human nature requires some reward for excellence and participation.  Sometimes all that means is a pat on the back and a "Well Done"!  Socialism stiffles creativity and excellence!

[fightingquaker13]

While China is graduating engineers at a rate five times greater than other industrial countries, a Bachelors degree in China is not much more than an Associates in the US and German engineering schools.

They have the capacity to MAKE a lot of stuff, far more than any other nation on the planet.  Their ability do DESIGN anything worth a sh!t is the problem.  Russia had the same problem during the cold war.  They could make a bunch of sh!t but it was litterally SH!T!  Now the Chinese are buying their technology from the Russians so they continue to make junk, just lots of it!

Trying to FORCE people to do their very best is impossible under Communism!  Simple as that!  Human nature requires some reward for excellence and participation.  Sometimes all that means is a pat on the back and a "Well Done"!  Socialism stiffles creativity and excellence!

Timothy
I agree 100% with every thing you wrote and for all the same reasons. Two caveats. You may be one in a million as far as engineering brilliance goes, but in China, that means there are a thousand guys just like you. We've got 300, IF our schools were funded enough, and well run enough to do their job. Second, quantity has a quality all its own. Hitler learned this the hard way. A Tiger is better than two T-34s. Ten T-34s are better than 2 Tigers. Its the same with an AR and and AK.
FQ13

[ratcatcher55]

O.K.  I admit trying NOT to follow politics more than necessary anymore.  But I think everyone would agree that for the last 15, or 20 years every high tech gizmo they've bought in this country came from Tiawan.  With China overtaking them in the last 5 years or so.

Being a world leader in producing technological products, HOW IS IT their military is still flying Huey's and Chinook helecopters?!?  THEY dont even trust the CRAP they produce enough to use it?!?

Who are we talking about Taiwan or PRC?

Chinooks are the best helicopter in it class in the world. Apaches can't keep up with them as far as speed or at altitude which pisses of sh#t hot Apache flyers to no end.

Chinooks are spread through out NATO and most of the SE Asia. Boeing upgrades and services them world wide.

The old Huey is past its prime but still used in more countries than than the new Blackhawks. Still flown by the USMC because it uses many of the same parts as the Super Cobras. A twin engined Huey is still an A list machine.

Be happy the Taiwan Army buys our stuff and not the French or Brits aircraft which are very good. Why try and develop when it's cheaper to buy if your allowed to.

As Timothy stated, the Chicoms fly copies of old Soviet stuff. The J-8 fighters were slight modifications of the Su-7 (?) type. The Reds copied the DC-9 and couldn't get it to even take off. They fliy a home grown version of the Mig-29. I think they fly Hinds as well. The Soviets gave them everything to get started.

We have a 70 years head start on the Chicoms on engine technology and avionics. They can use old airframes and I'm sure they will copy anything they can lay their hands on.

I agree with Timothy, they are more likely to copy and build than create new ideas.

FQ13 - A T34 was a great tank and very advanced. You did hit on an important point. T-34 was designed to be mass produced. Tigers, King Tigers and Leopards were not.

[tombogan03884]

 Have to disagree with some of your post Ratcatcher, Chinooks are shit that were falling out of the sky when I was in 30 years ago. The reason they are still in service is because the V22 Osprey project got killed, that was supposed to replace them.

As to the T34 the German Chief of the General Staff, Von Seekt, made a deal in 1927 with Soviet Russia (While Hitler was still in prison) in exchange for allowing the illegal (under the treaty of Versailles ) German Armored corps and Air Force to train on Russian soil, Germany supplied Russia with several tank and aircraft factories, and the engineers to operate them. German and Soviet armor were designed more or less by the same people.

[Sponsor]

[ratcatcher55]

Have to disagree with some of your post Ratcatcher, Chinooks are shit that were falling out of the sky when I was in 30 years ago. The reason they are still in service is because the V22 Osprey project got killed, that was supposed to replace them.

As to the T34 the German Chief of the General Staff, Von Seekt, made a deal in 1927 with Soviet Russia (While Hitler was still in prison) in exchange for allowing the illegal (under the treaty of Versailles ) German Armored corps and Air Force to train on Russian soil, Germany supplied Russia with several tank and aircraft factories, and the engineers to operate them. German and Soviet armor were designed more or less by the same people.

Tom,

You are correct about early Chinooks. I would say first gen Hueys were underpowered as well with just a single turbine. The newer CH-47 D and F versions are much improved.  We get G models flying over head here fairly often with 160th.
Old CH47wouldn't do this.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=2012015153

I did not know that about the T-34. Thanks for the history lesson!

[Pathfinder]

Have to disagree with some of your post Ratcatcher, Chinooks are shit that were falling out of the sky when I was in 30 years ago. The reason they are still in service is because the V22 Osprey project got killed, that was supposed to replace them.

As to the T34 the German Chief of the General Staff, Von Seekt, made a deal in 1927 with Soviet Russia (While Hitler was still in prison) in exchange for allowing the illegal (under the treaty of Versailles ) German Armored corps and Air Force to train on Russian soil, Germany supplied Russia with several tank and aircraft factories, and the engineers to operate them. German and Soviet armor were designed more or less by the same people.

Well, up until Hitler invaded the Soviet Union they might have been! 

But that is true, nice way to circumvent the Treaty. Seems like the Russkies never learned, and are still providing material support to embargoed countries. The one tidbit that comes to mind is when we encountered the Russian Roket anti-tank missiles in Iraq in 2000-something.

Military imports into Iraq were embargoed after Desert Storm in '91.  The Roket wasn't invented until 1998.

[Rastus]

............
Trying to FORCE people to do their very best is impossible under Communism!  Simple as that!  Human nature requires some reward for excellence and participation.  Sometimes all that means is a pat on the back and a "Well Done"!  Socialism stiffles creativity and excellence!

I tend to think like why in the heck am I working my behind off for all of those dead beats that are having fun goofing off at my expense.  I predict, if this socialist tide progresses much further, we will see a massive dump in productivity at some point when the producers say enough.  It has happened before and if we are on the path of socialosers then it will happen here to.

[tombogan03884]

Tom,

You are correct about early Chinooks. I would say first gen Hueys were underpowered as well with just a single turbine. The newer CH-47 D and F versions are much improved.  We get G models flying over head here fairly often with 160th.
Old CH47wouldn't do this.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=2012015153

I did not know that about the T-34. Thanks for the history lesson!

Holy CRAP !
No, the old Shithooks would not do THAT ! He went vertical, BACKWARDS !

[tombogan03884]

Well, up until Hitler invaded the Soviet Union they might have been! 

But that is true, nice way to circumvent the Treaty. Seems like the Russkies never learned, and are still providing material support to embargoed countries. The one tidbit that comes to mind is when we encountered the Russian Roket anti-tank missiles in Iraq in 2000-something.

Military imports into Iraq were embargoed after Desert Storm in '91.  The Roket wasn't invented until 1998.

The lead units invading the USSR were passing trains still sending wheat to Germany on the morning of the invasion.