What really separates a good 1911 from the others?

[m25operator]

Back to the original question, what seperates them? 10 yrs ago it was clearer, 20 yrs ago it was a lot clearer, there are so many manufacturers making better than milspec 1911's now it's not funny, and most of them will work as good or better than an issued 1911 in days gone by, with BALL ammo. That is one thing that seperates one from another, most of the modern pistols regardless of who made it, come with what we call a wide mouth on the barrel entrance, something that evolved and no gunsmith disagrees with, it does facilitate different bullet designs and takes nothing away from shooting ball ammo. If you want a defensive pistol and plan to shoot nothing but ball ammo at reduced distance, the world is your oyster, given that modern pistols come with larger than issue sights from 90 yrs ago, except for some retro, true to spec pistols. Reduced range for center of mass is less than 25 yds. So most will fill the criteria. The old issue sights with the miniscule front sight, did not allow for proper sighting, if you had an elevation problem then you better learn to hold over or under, because it was not tall enough to file down, and taller front sights were not available, nor lower rear sights, but you could file down the rear sight a very little bit. pistols that do not shoot to point of aim or close to it are due to barrel bushing fit, barrel lug fit, link fit or really sloppy slide to frame fit, you don't see that too much anymore.

The original design was for 230grn ball ammo, if that works for you fine, but if you want to shoot hp's or Swc's, it will be hit or miss, some do and most don't without polishing the feed ramp, and the entrance to the barrel. Original magazines won't properly feed a lot of SD ammo.

Last go's back to colonel Cooper, 100% reliable with your chosen ammunition ( that leaves a lot of room, if your shooting anything but ball ), next usable sights, that means you can see them easily ( I like to widen the rear notch to at least .125" ) and a clean trigger break in the 4lb range, I like mine lighter, but 4lbs, and clean works.

So some manufacturers include a lot of this, but if you get a 4lb trigger pull that is clean and not gritty, you have done well, if it feeds HP's out of the box, ditto, the sights are not much of a question anymore. You can do better, but as issued is not bad.

So again, what do you want, 100% reliability, SD accuracy, a decent trigger pull, ( 10 lbs won't work ) and a pistol that shoots were you point it. The rest is making the pistol fit you, a safety that comes off decently and you can re engage with no problem, a grip safety that works for you, mag wells or mag well work that allows for faster reloads. A mag release even if it is factory, that does not take 2 hands to release a magazine. A good gripping surface, whether it is skate board tape or checkering.

I hope I have given you all enough questions to answer your selves.

[Kid Shelleen]

m25,

I look forward to and appreciate every post that you author.




Thanks.

[fullautovalmet76]

Not so fast, M25...... 

Let's keep this rolling a while. Let's consider another topic: Bull Barrels or Bushing Barrels? Is there an appreciable difference?

[PegLeg45]

10 yrs ago it was clearer, 20 yrs ago it was a lot clearer, there are so many manufacturers making better than milspec 1911's now it's not funny, and most of them will work as good or better than an issued 1911 in days gone by, with BALL ammo.

You said it, M25.

The lines have definitely 'blurred' and the margins have narrowed immensely when it comes to 1911 quality.

Twenty or so years ago, my best friend, growing up, bought a used Llama 1911 for $150. It was a real piece of work. On a good day, with no wind and all the planets in perfect harmony, he might have been able to squeeze 'minute-of-barn door' out of it. And if you loaded the magazine to capacity and the tapped on it with a finger, it would send all the cartridges out onto the ground.

Now, many of the cheapest 1911's out there will give minute-of-trashcan lid right out of the box, and can be made into much  better guns for just a little bit of extra cost. I bought a $300 RIA from my nephew a few years back and it was a well made piece that I would stack up against some of the more expensive guns I've seen.

Better metallurgy and manufacturing processes have made the 1911 world better for us all.

[1911 Junkie]

I have 1 1911 with a bull barrel. I do think there is a difference in recoil and movement from target to target. It adds more weight to the front of the gun so it naturally helps keep the muzzel rise from being so severe. The gun acts like it just wants to shoot fast. I have had many positive comments by the people I have let shoot it and most were able to shoot it better than thier own gun that they were familiar with.

It did take a while for me to get it 100% reliable after the barrel change, but now, all is good.

I also had to start using the dreaded shock buff since you have to use a reverse spring plug to contain the recoil spring. I run a light recoil spring and the first reverse spring plug I had failed after a few thousand rounds (in the middle of a big match, that I was doing well in, that I didn't bring a back up gun to. Not that I'm bitter about it or anything). Now I carry a spare gun and spare reverse spring plug but haven't had to use either.

[Sponsor]

[Michael Bane]

Damn...this thread can go on forever! I shot Col. Cooper's last carry 1911, a Lightweight Commander with S&W revolver sights. I've always thought of that gun as the uber-1911. Walt Rauch's Swenson...Bill Wilson's carry gun...Wayne Novak's favorite 1911...John Shaw's first Clark Pin Gun...Jim Cirillo's old .38 Super...Brucie Gray's "I just tinkered it together yesterday" 1911...Todd Jarrett's competition 1911...a perfectly set up STI Edge at the factory...Bill Laughridge's prototype Adventurer...my own Heinie Springfield or Wilson Master Grade or the full house C&S/Kimber Olympic Commeprative. or Novak Commander...my father's 1911A1 from the Pacific...every one was special, and every one was different. Some were rattling loose and some were tight as the proverbial drum. They were all sort of the same and all sort of different.

I still think the best 1911 I ever had in my hand was the Ross Carter long slide I had built. Ross and I agonized over every single part that went into the gun, and there were no compromises, period. It was the sum total of everything I knew about 1911s, and it was a breath-taking gun. I took it out to the AMERICAN HANDGUNNER offices in California, and after protestations of "(groan) not another long slide," I took the gun out of the case and handed it to Editor Roy Huntington. He handled it for a couple of minutes, then said, "It goes on the cover." And it did...I still have a copy of the magazine. The gun we auctioned off through IDPA with the proceeds going to Ross, who was injured in a gas explosion. The guy who won it wasn't a gun guy and I'm sure sold it as quickly as he could for whatever he could get. So I don't actually know what happened to the best 1911 I ever touched. It's out there somewhere, if you happen to find it.

Michael B

[fightingquaker13]

I have to disagree and say that those come under "personal taste/ specific requirements" The tightly fit hand built guns are far more prone to stoppages and ammo sensitivity than guns built to less demanding tolerances.
The 1911 was never intended to be a "GREAT" gun, it was designed to  deliver a whollop with combat accuracy every time the trigger is pulled on a loaded chamber. A $400 pistol that rattles but does that is FAR greater than $2500 dollar fitted slide pistol that only likes 1 or 2 brands of ammo and  jams on crud after 50 rounds.
The type of shooting YOU do may require that type of fit, your budget may support having a particular pistol that is a beautiful safe queen until you need to make one certain type of shot.
 Most of us are not in that position we are looking for a pistol that will do ALL potential pistol chores in an acceptable manner. That means only  things (This applies to any platform Semi, Revolver, Polymer etc. ) It has to provide the reliability of the sun rising in the east, It has to give decent "COMBAT ACCURACY" say all shots in 3 inches at 10 yards, a pie plate at 25.
It has to be with in your means, if you can't afford it then the rest doesn't matter because you won't have it. The last one is adaptability.
Any thing after that is entirely dependent on YOU, what kind of stocks are you comfortable with, what sights are easier for you to see. I don't like ambidextrous controls, you might be a lefty, I carry mine for personal defense and recreational blasting, you may lock yours in the safe until the next bullseye match.
 What makes the 1911 a GREAT pistol is that it fills all 4 of those criteria.

Tom
I say this in all seriousness, but it sounds like you have just described a Glock as YOUR ideal pistol. Honestly, I would like to get a 1911 when funds permit, but get intimidated by all 4,000 variants and price points and arguments over what's "best". Best for me, is what you just describeded. I would like to find it at six bills or less (used is fine) in a 1911, but its hard to be sure that x or y custom feature isn't actually a negative for practical defensive shooting.
FQ13

[Timothy]

Tom
I say this in all seriousness, but it sounds like you have just described a Glock as YOUR ideal pistol. Honestly, I would like to get a 1911 when funds permit, but get intimidated by all 4,000 variants and price points and arguments over what's "best". Best for me, is what you just describeded. I would like to find it at six bills or less (used is fine) in a 1911, but its hard to be sure that x or y custom feature isn't actually a negative for practical defensive shooting.
FQ13

Para Ordnance.....The GI is about 600 bills list, should be able to cut 100 bucks off that.  My Para was about 700 down from MSRP of 950....Look at Taurus as well.....there are plenty of inexpensive, well made 1911's out there.  Personally, I think several thousand dollars for a handgun is rediculous!  I have better things to spend money on!  I would love to find an aged, well worn, well loved Colt Commander before I'd spend money for a Kimber, Wilson, Baer or Ed Brown....

[fullautovalmet76]

Para Ordnance.....The GI is about 600 bills list, should be able to cut 100 bucks off that.  My Para was about 700 down from MSRP of 950....Look at Taurus as well.....there are plenty of inexpensive, well made 1911's out there.  Personally, I think several thousand dollars for a handgun is rediculous!  I have better things to spend money on!  I would love to find an aged, well worn, well loved Colt Commander before I'd spend money for a Kimber, Wilson, Baer or Ed Brown....

And don't forget about the STI Spartan, which retails for $698. Every time I go into a gun store to look at one, they tell me they can't keep them on the shelf.

[long762range]

Most of the guys I shoot with use STIs.  They really do make great firearms.