The CIA Just Went To War

[tt11758]

In my honest opinion, the controversy boils down to this:  Everybody wants results, but nobody is willing to get their hands dirty.

God bless those whose hands get dirty keeping America safe.

[Kid Shelleen]

God bless those whose hands get dirty keeping America safe.

Amen, brother.
Whatever it takes. There is no room for political correctness when dealing with those who seek to harm this nation and its citizens.

[fightingquaker13]

Amen, brother.
Whatever it takes. There is no room for political correctness when dealing with those who seek to harm this nation and its citizens.

That's true Kid. I think I've made it clear that I understand that fact. BUT just because we're fighting thugs doesn't mean we get to become one either. No one ever became a saint by living among sinners. I want our troopsto be  able to do what they need to do, but we also need to remember why we are different from the other guys and part of that is understanding that there certain things that we simply WILL not (not cannot, but Will not) do. Why? Because its its wrong, for us, for them, today, yesterday and tomorrow and we just won't go there. Again, I say for the second time  on this thread, it's a matter of honor. At the end of the day, that's the only thing you get to take with you in the casket. You've got it or you don't.
FQ13

[tombogan03884]

That's true Kid. I think I've made it clear that I understand that fact. BUT just because we're fighting thugs doesn't mean we get to become one either. No one ever became a saint by living among sinners. I want our troopsto be  able to do what they need to do, but we also need to remember why we are different from the other guys and part of that is understanding that there certain things that we simply WILL not (not cannot, but Will not) do. Why? Because its its wrong, for us, for them, today, yesterday and tomorrow and we just won't go there. Again, I say for the second time  on this thread, it's a matter of honor. At the end of the day, that's the only thing you get to take with you in the casket. You've got it or you don't.
FQ13

It's WAR FQ, War means Fighting, fighting means killing, get over being squeamish or lose.
Your way of thinking is part of why we haven't flat out WON a war since 1945.
I support ANY action that keeps Americans safe, If that means firing bombing a city for a week straight and killing 600,000 civilians, so be it. If it means hooking a set of jumper cables to some a holes nuts, oh well.

[Kid Shelleen]

It's WAR FQ, War means Fighting, fighting means killing, get over being squeamish or lose.
Your way of thinking is part of why we haven't flat out WON a war since 1945.
I support ANY action that keeps Americans safe, If that means firing bombing a city for a week straight and killing 600,000 civilians, so be it. If it means hooking a set of jumper cables to some a holes nuts, oh well.

Again I say, Amen Brother!!!
War ain't pretty and too many people seem to forget, "This is War!"

[Sponsor]

[Johnny Bravo]

This whole situation is like anything else the new administration has anything to do with.......IT STINKS ON ICE !!!

[fightingquaker13]

This whole situation is like anything else the new administration has anything to do with.......IT STINKS ON ICE !!!

The NEW administration? What about the last one that defined (under Gonzo) torture as "being equivilent to the pain of organ removal", as opposed to the more useful standard of would we call it torture if it were done to Jessica Lynch? Sorry folks, but I ain't a pacifest, I ain't naieve and I don't live in the Disney channel. However the rules (not the  VERY rare exceptions that we just hypocritically ignore and do so with out apology ) is that we just DO NOT PRACTICE TORTURE. PERIOD. FULL STOP. Some things are just flat wrong. Jack Bauer can kiss my ass, because this nation is founded on a set of principles that you subscribe to or you don't. Your call.
FQ13

[Pathfinder]

That's true Kid. I think I've made it clear that I understand that fact. BUT just because we're fighting thugs doesn't mean we get to become one either. No one ever became a saint by living among sinners. I want our troopsto be  able to do what they need to do, but we also need to remember why we are different from the other guys and part of that is understanding that there certain things that we simply WILL not (not cannot, but Will not) do. Why? Because its its wrong, for us, for them, today, yesterday and tomorrow and we just won't go there. Again, I say for the second time  on this thread, it's a matter of honor. At the end of the day, that's the only thing you get to take with you in the casket. You've got it or you don't.
FQ13

FQ, you are naive, you live (or lived) in academia which is as artificial and manufactured an environment as you can get. It is not real.

As for your throw-away snarky comment, I'm sure that will come as a complete surprise to Mother Teresa. She hasn't been canonized yet, but IIRC she is in the works. I'm not a Catholic, so that isn't my thing. Besides, that is exactly where a Christian belongs. As Jesus said, if I heal, why would I be around the healthy? It is the sick that need me. We are all challenged to be a witness to God's grace, and who do we tell, another Christian? Or the sinner that needs us? But this isn't really my point either.

My point is that the methods have nothing to do with who you are. With 3rd world trash like the ones we deal with - and even if you're dealing with Western trash - you do what you have to do, but it boils down to 2 things. You kill - utterly destroy - the perpetrators, and you send a message to those who might be thinking of being a perpetrator. The "above it all, I won't do that" attitude is great for the movies. The reality is very different.

Look at Iraq, we have not been fighting Iraqis for some time. Most of the BGs we're fighting (not all, but most) have been idealistic foreign imports coming in through Syria or Iran. The locals have seen what we are prepared to do - and in fact did - and wanted no part of it. The foreigners only see the news stories and BG propaganda sitting safe in their foreign homes, and think it's time to get the infidel. They learn when they get to Itaq that life in Iraq fighting the allied forces is very different - and probably very short too.

As a result, word has gotten out, and now look - Iraq is generally quiet, gone are the days where we lose a dozen people a day. Iraq is at a point where they can focus on rebuilding.

The key difference is that - especially in this case - their ideology drives them to kills, and even die willingly for their share of the virgins. We can do what it takes - whatever it takes to get the job done quickly and effectively - and still remember that we are radically different people than the BGs, even if we use their own tactics against them.

Let me share these I blatantly stole from the Magpul site:

[jnevis]

Part of the reason we are in this fight is because we pansied around and didn't show enough spine and power early on, like as far back as the 60-70s.  As was said before that area has been at war in some form or another for 1000s of years.  They only repsect someone who can utterly destroy an enemy, but doesn't always (power with compassion).  They also respect loyalty, something we're not very good at unfortunately.  We get in a war, winning battles, but slow down and negotiate instead of win(loss of face) then rebuild, only to leave before the rebuilding is done (betrayal). We did it in Iran, Afganistan, Iraq, Lebanon, and Pakistan through the 80s. 

Look closely where all the foriegn fighters are coming from in Iraq.  Places we've abandoned.  Afganistan, and the Iran/Iraq War in the 80s was a weapons test facility for us against the Russians, nothing more.  When it was over and they needed our help to rebuild we left.  We helped up until the first Gulf War and had to put it on hold for a bit.  When Slick Willie came into office it stopped.  We pissed the entire region off doing that and now we're doing it again in Iraq.  Leaving just as things are improving but not complete.

We don't want to be a thug and stoop to the level of the terrorists but at the same time we need to get information.  My wife gets pissed when we talk about this stuff.   She is of the mind that they kill/maime/mutilate to show they can, we have to follow the Geneva Convention and not harm prisoners of war and that limits our effectiveness.  One less terrorist to attack us later on she believes.

[tombogan03884]

 I believe it was Attila the Hun who destroyed the Central Asian city of Bukhara.
When he was done he told the widows and orphans, " I am a punishment from Allah. You must have been VERY bad people for Allah to send you such a fate."
They didn't give HIM any more trouble.