slugs and chokes

[tombogan03884]

Somehow this doesn't surprise me.  Maybe because I am not a hand loader.

It reminds me of people that say a .357 from a rifle isn't very good for deer at 100 to 150 yards.  Ask them if a .357 handgun will drop a deer at 10 feet and they say "sure", then show them that from a rifle the velocity and energy at 100 yards is the same or better and they are surprised.

So why couldn't a .410, with today's improved barrels and powders be a great little gun at 100 yards or even more?

Ballistics fall off after 50 yards. Last time I checked, granted it was years ago, but after 50 yards it was dropping almost 1 to 1.

[ericire12]

So why couldn't a .410, with today's improved barrels and powders be a great little gun at 100 yards or even more?

Yeah, but it is more then just that..... just about any shotgun with just about any slug can get you a deer at 100yds.... the question is, can you create something that will take the handcuffs off those hunters that are restricted to shotguns only and allow them to hunt out to 250+ yds? I think, and its 100% theory, that the .410 is the best way to get there. The uber awesome, highly refined 12 ga slugs that are out there now will let you reach out to 150-200 yards (about a 6 1/2 inch drop at 200yds)..... and that is with 260-385 gr slugs



http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshell/slugs/accuTip_bonded_sabot_slug.asp

[blackwolfe]

I remember reading awhile back about a study regarding shotgun only hunting areas.  The study found that shotgun slug use may not be as safe as rifle use.  I wish I could find the info.  Michigan has a shotgun only zone, but much of the state is open to rifles.  You can use pistols in the shotgun zone and there are some qualifications on their use as far as minimum caliber and I think it has to be a straight wall case.  I think Indiana recently passed the use of rifles use in pistol calibers only.

[tombogan03884]

 We have a couple "Shotgun only" counties here. The reason is population density, they don't want people using stuff yhat carries to far in order to cut the number of accidental shootings.

[Hazcat]

I remember reading awhile back about a study regarding shotgun only hunting areas.  The study found that shotgun slug use may not be as safe as rifle use.  I wish I could find the info.  Michigan has a shotgun only zone, but much of the state is open to rifles.  You can use pistols in the shotgun zone and there are some qualifications on their use as far as minimum caliber and I think it has to be a straight wall case.  I think Indiana recently passed the use of rifles use in pistol calibers only.

Yeah I read that study too, BW.  It concluded that shotguns only areas were no safer than rifle areas.  And yeah some places have gone pistol caliber rifle legal in the last year or two.

[Sponsor]

[Badgersmilk]

At least all the shotgun only zones I've heard of also allow muzzle loaders...  STUPID!  Today's muzzle loaders are reaching velocities of magnum rifles.  The restricting laws are TOTALY out-dated, and either need refining, or done away with.  I actually vote for refining, because people are to stupid to not shoot 458 magnums at rabbits when houses are in plane sight.

Same thing applies to rimfires for squirrel.  The velocities being hit with rimfires is giving them equal range as anything else, and very few have enough brains and patience to consider whats on the other side of their targets.

Eric, I think your "Magnum Whoop Ass .410 Slug" idea is 100% viable, and would pull a giant segment of the market.  SO LONG AS they came out with some kind of futuristic looking, black, semi-auto that was "built to purpose".  Then use that gun in a hit movie.  SADLY, that's what drives the market.    And thats what would sway people away from other options, more than its performance. 

[blackwolfe]

At least all the shotgun only zones I've heard of also allow muzzle loaders...  STUPID!  Today's muzzle loaders are reaching velocities of magnum rifles.  The restricting laws are TOTALY out-dated, and either need refining, or done away with.  I actually vote for refining, because people are to stupid to not shoot 458 magnums at rabbits when houses are in plane sight.

Same thing applies to rimfires for squirrel.  The velocities being hit with rimfires is giving them equal range as anything else, and very few have enough brains and patience to consider whats on the other side of their targets.

Eric, I think your "Magnum Whoop Ass .410 Slug" idea is 100% viable, and would pull a giant segment of the market.  SO LONG AS they came out with some kind of futuristic looking, black, semi-auto that was "built to purpose".  Then use that gun in a hit movie.  SADLY, that's what drives the market.    And thats what would sway people away from other options, more than its performance.  

They already have, American Tactical Imports T-14  Uppers to be avaiable soon.now.
http://www.americantactical.us/at14.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buZLlYOpqQ4
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Safir_Arms_T-14_Classic_.410_Guage_Upper_Half.html

[tombogan03884]

At least all the shotgun only zones I've heard of also allow muzzle loaders...  STUPID!  Today's muzzle loaders are reaching velocities of magnum rifles.  The restricting laws are TOTALY out-dated, and either need refining, or done away with.  I actually vote for refining, because people are to stupid to not shoot 458 magnums at rabbits when houses are in plane sight.

Same thing applies to rimfires for squirrel.  The velocities being hit with rimfires is giving them equal range as anything else, and very few have enough brains and patience to consider whats on the other side of their targets.

Eric, I think your "Magnum Whoop Ass .410 Slug" idea is 100% viable, and would pull a giant segment of the market.  SO LONG AS they came out with some kind of futuristic looking, black, semi-auto that was "built to purpose".  Then use that gun in a hit movie.  SADLY, that's what drives the market.    And thats what would sway people away from other options, more than its performance. 

You REALLY are not "getting it". If they refine the regulations in "shotgun only" hunting zones to reflect the "more rifle like" performance of todays shotguns and muzzle loaders, they will ban gun hunting in those areas. They might leave handguns, but long guns would not be allowed.

[Badgersmilk]

I think the shotgun only zones SHOULD go to shot shells only, & NO muzzle loaders.  I lived in SE Michigan for a LONG time.  The houses are now WAY the heii  to close for anyone to be throwing slugs around.  Especially when every year you have hunters turning in goats for deer.  But on the other side of it I think Eric's 100% right in saying .410's have the potential to perform far better than they do.  It just needs to be done in a safe area!  At leaste the shotgun zone of Michigan is NOT this area!  For that matter even cross bow's are bad news there.

[blackwolfe]

About the bottom 1/3 to 1/2 of Michigan's lower peninsula is a shotgun only zone for deer hunting.  There are many areas in this zone where a rifle could safely be used.    Granted there are some high density population areas that need to be
taken into account, but the way the citizens are fleeing this state that may not be a problem for much longer.  The key to hunting and shooting, using any device, is knowledge and education.  There may also be so called hunters out there that may not be able to tell the differance between a deer and a goat, but I have yet to see a goat ever turned in at a deer check station.  Your thought to limit hunting opportunites and methods is a no win situation and does nothing but give the antis grist for the mill to ban whatever they can.  As far as crossbows go, they are probably the least effective and least dangerous of all the the weapons you have mentioned.  I need to verify this yet, but I heard a conversation a few days ago in which it was mentioned that crossbows are now accepted for hunting in Michigan for everyone and not just the handicapped.