A rethink of the Patriot Act

[tombogan03884]

I did not personally have a RIGHT violated, but I have had several personal freedoms and privileges encroached.  Most were due to traveling, the most disconcerting was being forced to submit to fingerprinting to re-enter the country. 

That, actually is one of the smartest regulations they came up with, with the Computer data base the cops have it proves your documents a REAL and if not they have a good chance of knowing who you REALLY are.
A lot more sensible than some of the others.

[twyacht]

I did not personally have a RIGHT violated, but I have had several personal freedoms and privileges encroached.  Most were due to traveling, the most disconcerting was being forced to submit to fingerprinting to re-enter the country.  

You can thank the 9/11 terrorists for the increased security. So you got fingerprinted, the gov't already knows more info on you than you would like,..... Try flying in and out of Israel. Whether a citizen or not. They have a profiling policy, and are 10 times more stringent than the Patriot Act.

Still waiting for a specific rights violation....

[fullautovalmet76]

Still waiting for a specific rights violation....

TW,
The problem is one might never know their rights were violated the way the law is constructed- warrantless wiretaps. This law is very specious in that it was passed with very few who read the bill; doesn't this sound familiar?

And think about the no-fly list: it's up over 1 million names! I know we do not have the constitutional right to fly, but who decided whom should be on the list anyway? Are there really 1 million potential terrorists out there? I think not.

I used to tell judges at a courthouse I worked at the one can not have absolute security on their computer and absolute freedom to whatever they wish on the computer. They are mutually exclusive propositions.

This law needs to be repealed in that it has probably caused more problems than it has solved. I will qualify this by saying that certain provisions that provide to non citizens should be retained.

[twyacht]

FullAuto
This law needs to be repealed in that it has probably caused more problems than it has solved.

If you can back that up with FACTS, I'd love to see them...

Millions travel every year with NO issues other than the standard BS from flying anyway. Nobody enjoys flying anymore.

The Patriot Act is what utilized resources to get the current potential terrorists in New York & Denver to get busted.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/active-terror-cell-prepared-nyc-attack-officials/story?id=8628780

The hype about me calling a friend of mine and having big brother "listen in" because I think BHO is undermining this nations security and sucks as a POTUS, doesn't work.

If that were true, me and some members of this forum would be gone already....

I have yet to feel my "rights" have been violated. I take my shoes off when I fly, BFD. What is the percentage of warrantless wiretaps do think the gov't actually engages in?

 You calling your friend to talk about ammo, and hunting, drinking some beers, and how the economy sucks hardly is worth their time..

and in the current Zazi case, it worked.

The No-Fly list has errors for sure,...it was put together by the Gov't. There were even Congressional and Executive Branch staff members on the list, and a few total SNAFU's.

Returning to a "pre-9/11" mindset, won't work. 

[tombogan03884]

 About the Wire tapping aspects of the Patriot Act.
Before the passage of the Patriot Act in order to put a tap on your LAND LINE  phone it was necessary to get a court order, in effect an electronic search warrant. BUT,  with the advent of mobile, and cellular phones this became a much grayer area, the reason being that these devices utilize not a privacy insuring wire, but broadcast over "publicly accessible"  air waves, that was ruled on in the 70's when CB's and scanners got popular. The SCOTUS ruled that using the airwaves instead of a "wire" eliminated the expectation of privacy.
On top of that we have the NSA, these are the folks who gather electronic intelligence and break codes. And boy do they gather.
The NSA monitors ALL ELECTRONIC EMISSIONS ON THE PLANET. While the NSA is GENERALLY prohibited from monitoring US communications English intelligence has equal access to the data and are under no such constraints, AND THIS ARRANGEMENT HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR 20 or 30 YEARS.
What the Patriot Act did was make it possible for National intelligence agencies to share with law enforcement information that technically they aren't supposed to use themselves in a manner that makes it admissible in Court.
The way the technology works the NSA monitors all electronic signals then sorts out the ones FROM the US that they aren't supposed to listen to, (They give those to the Brits ) But if a LE organization (FBI, State Police etc. ) asks , "Do you have any thing from X phone numbers ? "  in the old days the NSA had to say no regardless, with the Patriot Act they can hand over any pertinent intercepts.
As an example shortly before the 9-11 attack a girl out west was kidnapped by a sex offender, several days passed between her disappearance and when her body was found Law Enforcement KNEW that she had been a live  captive for some time but could not locate them. There was a brief media stink because an upset analyst at the NRO (Nation Reconnaissance Office , the people in charge of out spy satellites) leaked the fact that the NRO had been able to track the vehicle but because of the way the law was written could not give that information to police, not even to save this girls life.
If your kid gets snatched you may be very grateful for the Patriot Act.

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