Author Topic: the greenies won't like this  (Read 2835 times)

philw

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the greenies won't like this
« on: October 14, 2009, 07:52:29 AM »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/6299291/Energy-crisis-is-postponed-as-new-gas-rescues-the-world.html


Quote
Energy crisis is postponed as new gas rescues the world

ope's gas will weaken. Improvident Britain may avoid paralysing blackouts by mid-decade after all.
The World Gas Conference in Buenos Aires last week was one of those events that shatter assumptions. Advances in technology for extracting gas from shale and methane beds have quickened dramatically, altering the global balance of energy faster than almost anybody expected.

Tony Hayward, BP's chief executive, said proven natural gas reserves around the world have risen to 1.2 trillion barrels of oil equivalent, enough for 60 years' supply – and rising fast.
"There has been a revolution in the gas fields of North America. Reserve estimates are rising sharply as technology unlocks unconventional resources," he said.
This is almost unknown to the public, despite the efforts of Nick Grealy at "No Hot Air" who has been arguing for some time that Britain's shale reserves could replace declining North Sea output.
Rune Bjornson from Norway's StatoilHydro said exploitable reserves are much greater than supposed just three years ago and may meet global gas needs for generations.
"The common wisdom was that unconventional gas was too difficult, too expensive and too demanding," he said, according to Petroleum Economist. "This has changed. If we ever doubted that gas was the fuel of the future – in many ways there's the answer."
The breakthrough has been to combine 3-D seismic imaging with new technologies to free "tight gas" by smashing rocks, known as hydro-fracturing or "fracking" in the trade.
The US is leading the charge. Operations in Pennsylvania and Texas have already been sufficient to cut US imports of liquefied natural gas (LGN) from Trinidad and Qatar to almost nil, with knock-on effects for the global gas market – and crude oil. It is one reason why spot prices for some LNG deliveries have dropped to 50pc of pipeline contracts.
Energy bulls gambling that the world economy will soon resume its bubble trajectory need to remember two facts: industrial production over the last year is still down 19pc in Japan, 18pc in Italy, 17pc in Germany, 15pc in Canada, 13pc in France and Russia. 11pc in the US and the UK and 10pc in Brazil. A 12pc rise in China does not offset this.
OPEC states are cheating on quota cuts. Non-compliance has fallen to 62pc from 82pc in March. Iran, Nigeria, Venezuela et al face a budget crunch. Why comply when non-OPEC Russia is pumping at breakneck speed?
The US Energy Department expects shale to meet half of US gas demand within 20 years, if not earlier. Projects are cranking up in eastern France and Poland. Exploration is under way in Australia, India and China.
Texas A&M University said US methods could increase global gas reserves by nine times to 16,000 TCF (trillion cubic feet). Almost a quarter is in China but it may lack the water resources to harness the technology given the depletion of the North China water basin.
Needless to say, the Kremlin is irked. "There's a lot of myths about shale production," said Gazprom's Alexander Medvedev.
If the new forecasts are accurate, Gazprom is not going to be the perennial cash cow funding Russia's great power resurgence. Russia's budget may be in structural deficit.
As for the US, we may soon be looking at an era when gas, wind and solar power, combined with a smarter grid and a switch to electric cars returns the country to near energy self-sufficiency.
This has currency implications. If you strip out the energy deficit, America's vaulting savings rate may soon bring the current account back into surplus – and that is going to come at somebody else's expense, chiefly Japan, Germany and, up to a point, China.
Shale gas is undoubtedly messy. Millions of gallons of water mixed with sand, hydrochloric acid and toxic chemicals are blasted at rocks. This is supposed to happen below the water basins but accidents have been common. Pennsylvania's eco-police have shut down a Cabot Oil & Gas operation after 8,000 gallons of chemicals spilled into a stream.
Nor is it exactly green. Natural gas has much lower CO2 emissions than coal, even from shale – which is why the Sierra Club is backing it as the lesser of evils against "clean coal" (not yet a reality). The US Federal Energy Regulatory Commission said America may not need any new coal or nuclear plants "ever" again.
I am not qualified to judge where gas excitement crosses into hyperbole. I pass on the story because the claims of BP and Statoil are so extraordinary that we may need to rewrite the geo-strategy textbooks for the next half century.


 it is my understanding LPG vehicles aren't offered for sale the US.  We  can buy them as a new Factory option,

Probably some regulations created by a Californian fuckwit keeping them out of the market.  or (at least in Hollywood) if you shoot a car running on LPG with a handgun it will crash and explode. No sense making any class action lawyers rich by giving anyone reason to think that scenario is more likely.


so I guess it will be nice for electricity generation and home heating



Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They’re not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo. You can praise them, disagree with them, quote them, disbelieve them, glorify or vilify them. The only thing you can’t do is ignore them

Hazcat

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Re: the greenies won't like this
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2009, 08:09:52 AM »
All tipoes and misspelings are copi-righted.  Pleeze do not reuse without ritten persimmons  :D

philw

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Re: the greenies won't like this
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2009, 08:13:51 AM »
Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They’re not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo. You can praise them, disagree with them, quote them, disbelieve them, glorify or vilify them. The only thing you can’t do is ignore them

Walter45Auto

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Re: the greenies won't like this
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2009, 12:00:16 PM »
Most of the vehicles I've seen that run on LP are school buses. The only person I know of who has a pickup that runs on it was a propane certification instructor.
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tombogan03884

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Re: the greenies won't like this
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2009, 05:39:14 PM »
 The way to find PRACTICAL alternative power is in heavy transport,  If an electric engine will get a truck or train through the Rockies then it will get your butt around town, but with out a practical load capacity they are useless.

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Re: the greenies won't like this
« Reply #5 on: Today at 03:56:44 PM »

twyacht

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Re: the greenies won't like this
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2009, 07:49:08 PM »
Drive with a tank of compressed LP???

No thanks,... I'll just keep my Pinto,...
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philw

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Re: the greenies won't like this
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2009, 01:58:30 AM »
Drive with a tank of compressed LP???

No thanks,... I'll just keep my Pinto,...


we have an 80l tank is the Back of the Mrs Commodore  as she drives  100km a day to and from work   
 
looks like this



to fill up the LPG  it is around .60 per litre  and the Petrol is $1.20 per litre.   works around the same however we fill both tanks up and it will last the fortnight between pays

the only down side is the issue of boot space   as it takes up a bit   however  that means she can not put as much crap in the car  hehe
Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They’re not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo. You can praise them, disagree with them, quote them, disbelieve them, glorify or vilify them. The only thing you can’t do is ignore them

tombogan03884

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Re: the greenies won't like this
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2009, 12:44:47 PM »
 Just as long as your rifles still fit.  ;D

JC5123

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Re: the greenies won't like this
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2009, 12:50:57 PM »
While I agree with the cost effectiveness of LPG. My complaint is this: I do alot of stuff out in the "sticks". So the ability to carry extra fuel is a concern. I just don't see any practical way to carry extra fuel with a LPG set up.
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MikeBjerum

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Re: the greenies won't like this
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2009, 01:15:56 PM »
I had one grain truck that ran on LP.  It was a Chev C-65 with a 366, GVW of 48,000 (and typically run at that weight) and it was a full LP conversion rather than dual fuel.

The economy on the truck was the same (cost of fuel + lowered mileage + road tax that needed to be paid annually since it wasn't included in the fuel price = no advantage or disadvantage economically).  Drivability was fine with no discernable power difference.  With 25,000 of tank space (20,000 real fill limit) on the yard, and plenty of fill stations for the 20 lb tanks around filling up was no problem.  I had two tanks set up to fill - one on a hog barn next to our gas and diesel tanks, and I had a fill hose on one of our dryer tanks so I could fill the truck while unloading at the bin site.

With all that neutral there was a downside.  Here in the great white north it had a starting issue.  Many lp vehicles are actually dual fuel, so you can start on gas and switch to lp once they are warmed up and capable of vaporizing the fuel.  Whenever the temps dropped below 30 F I had to plug the truck in to get enough warmth in the coolant to vaporize the lp.  Even with the truck plugged in, on cold days it would take several miles to get enough engine heat to produce full power.  Remembering to fill out the log books, file the paperwork and pay that full year of road tax once a year was also a pain ... But not as big a pain as being 300 miles from home and explaining to the gal at the station that this is just like filling those little bbq tanks except you watch the gauge instead of the scale.
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