4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen

[WatchManUSA]

Watchman, Tom can fight his own battles, but being a DRTV Ranger which is an "appointed" title, should kinda enlighten you.

By all account every single one of us are probably already on a "watch" list, and according to BHO, already "extremists".

Hang on I have to get the rifle and Bible off my lap..

You never talked to Marshal'ette before have you?

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
President Thomas Jefferson

Reference "the pressure cooker" and search previous DRTV topics regarding it.

There is a line in the sand, and BHO is getting closer all the time.

Nov. 2010 will give us what? New scumbags who throw the most money at their election? Or the blind sheeple that keep re-electing the Pelosi's of the country?

I could care less if he or anyone is a DRTV Ranger or a Rescue Ranger or a Park Ranger.

[fullautovalmet76]

Here's a link to the Copenhagen site of the conference: http://en.cop15.dk/frontpage

I searched for the word 'treaty' and found several links. It appears the top climate change official for the UN states there will not be a treaty, this time. However, he does want them to establish a framework for a more cohesive agreement that will be established at a later date.

It's important we pay attention to not only what is said, but what is not said. And I will add we should be more savvy about the way certain discussions are framed on this issue too.

-FA

[WatchManUSA]

 Thank you TW and Path.
Watchman,
First off in your PC rush to judgment you conveniently ignore half my post. Do you have a BETTER IDEA ?
Utilizing the Ballot box since the time of FDR has been an abject failure because the scumbags who get elected extend the vote to wino's the mentally handicapped and illegal aliens (Why else would they prohibit checking ID and Citizenship )
They also tell you sheep anything you want to hear if they think it will get a vote


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UErR7i2onW0

Americans have been trying to utilize the soap box to voice their opposition to these socialist wacko's since before last April 15th and what has THAT accomplished, it has gotten Citizens called terrorists, extremists, unpatriotic, Nazi's. and their demands for Congress and the president to limit their spending spree and obey the Constitution are ridiculed, laughed at, and ignored


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkssjEWz_iI  
NOTE This douche bag allegedly represents my district


That only leaves one other choice
 " We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends."

 You think I'm depressed ? Damned right I am , just like Cassandra got depressed when the Trojans ignored her warnings about Greeks bearing gifts. You hide your age in your profile so I will assume you are fairly young, and tell you that I remember what America was like, and this current nanny state where a cities Mayor can regulate what FOODS are eaten there sure as HELL is not America.

I think you are either a federal employee trying to justify his paycheck, (which, being unemployed myself, I can understand, if not excuse ) or you are a blind fool who lacks enough historical awareness to realize that the "usurpation's and abuses" that led to rebellion against King George have been so far exceeded by by our runaway Congress as to call into question the manhood of our citizens.
I will follow the quote from the Declaration with a modern example until I have gotten tired of typing ;
He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

Obama ignoring Gen McChrystal should cover this one.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
Federal resistance to the current spate of "States rights bills"
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our People, and eat out their substance.
Czars, or Tsars if you prefer
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
We don't even know how many gunbearing federal enforcement agencies there are, even the dept. of Agriculture has a SWAT team. But the so called "war on Drugs fits this as it has been a drain on our Constitutional rights since  it was passed.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
 UN  
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
This also goes back to the war on some drugs and the payoffs received through unjust forfeiture laws
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
Should need no comment
My supper is getting cold so I will close this with one more and a comment
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

The tax rate that drove the Colonists to insurrection was 4% What are YOU paying ?

Tom, above you talk about BHO getting closer to a “line in the sand” that, I assume, if crossed will force some one into action.  I would presume that, given your previous posts, would mean some sort of violent response. 

Your post makes it appear that you have already determined the 2010 elections won’t appreciably change what is going on regardless of who wins.  It looks to me that you probably have all the justification you need.  You live in a State that gives you the right to revolt.  So why are you waiting?  What is the line in sand for you? 

[twyacht]

You live in a State that gives you the right to revolt.  So why are you waiting?  What is the line in sand for you? 
I could care less if he or anyone is a DRTV Ranger or a Rescue Ranger or a Park Ranger.

The line in the sand is the violation, usurpation, and rape of the principles of which this country was founded. The Amendments in the Constitution are NOT an "evolving" document.  Politicians have forgotten this and who they represent. The old addage of voting for the "lesser of two evils" is growing weary on a republic that is finally waking the "f" up.

A "New World Order" was wrong when first initiated, and it is still wrong.  Our Republic left a "World Order", in the 1700's and fought to the death to defend a premise of freedom from tyranny and frankly, Imperial Bullshit.

We are facing that Imperial BS now, and the Conservatives have yet to Man The "F" Up, sound off like they got a pair, and do something about it. ie Olympia Snow, John McCain, Lindsey Graham,....etc,...play the game, and contribute to their own agenda, NOT OURS.

Watchman, I'm sorry things got off to a rough patch in regards to this thread. You seem like a good guy and have your intentions in all the right places.

All the polls and people you probably know, have Americans pissed off at the gov't. Both Red & Blue voters have had it with their "representatives" in D.C.

Some members here are more explicit and vocal (in type anyway), in their personal opinion. It is from a defensive posture. Let the elections in 2010 work, let the "voters" decide the next "salesman". Hopefully, this country gets back on track, right now it is not.

I do not advocate proactive violence against my own country, but the key phrase is how many times do we keep grabbing our ankles and saying " Thank you Sir, may I have another?"

I hope the 2010 elections send a message, but history has ebb and flow of the same sham...

Remember, it's nothing personal here, try not to take it as such.

Sincerely,

tw

"Remember that Jefferson told us that the Second Amendment would not be needed until they tried to abolish it. There are people who have that in mind right now. The personal ownership and usage of firearms is not a common aspect of today's culture worldwide. It is up to Americans - those who know what it means to be an American - to uphold the light of liberty in the face of those both here and elsewhere who would extinguish it. We see the hysterics who feel that the abolition of firearms would bring about major changes in the human psyche, and that crime would disappear. We cannot reason with these people because they are impervious to reason, but we can expose them to ridicule and frustrate their political clout. That is a job not just for the National Rifle Association, but for everyone. If you want to make a resolution for the coming century, resolve to do something in defense of liberty every day, and by liberty, of course, we mean true liberty - the right to keep and bear arms. Without that liberty all other liberties are meaningless."
Col. Jeff Cooper

[bryand71]

The problem, as some one else recently posted , is LEADERSHIP . More precisely that we have none. The Colonists had prominent RESPECTED men like Adams, Jefferson and Washington to rally behind. In fact, recovering stolen weapons was only part of the British mission o 4 Apr. 1775, the other objective were the arrests of Adams and Hancock.
Would modern Patriots rally to the defense of  Alan Keyes, or Glen Beck ?
Would we have risen in arms at the arrest of McCain (Yeah I know, but he was the one who ran against BO ).
Bill O'Reilly (Who is a dem and actually somewhat of a liberal ) Rush , Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter,these people are actually doing exactly the same as Franklin, Hamilton, Paine, etc, they are calling BS on abuses of the people by the Govt..
The difference that is causing us problems is that they can no longer spread their message by posting it  on the side of a building as the old time news sheets (called "Broadsides") were. They have to refrain from calling for decisive action in order to retain their "bully pulpit". Will Sarah Palin be America's Joan of Arc ? I don't know, but she has taken the first 2 steps of gaining the ear and respect of THINKING Patriots,  ( FU FQ ) and shifting her focus from the corruption of "Old Boy" political machines to the unrestricted internet. Ron Paul ? Sure, he's been defeated before, so wasn't Reagan.
Another question though, is either of them radical and ruthless enough to actually DO the job if they get the office ?
Regardless, with out a leader we remain disgruntled individuals, with a leader to rally behind, even one who does not completely agree with your ideas, we become a movement.
But with or with out Leadership, eventual victory WILL be ours if we remember that the Irish fought for their freedom for 800 years. Even as Leaderless individuals we can NEVER be defeated. We can be killed, but the ideals of Liberty can not be extinguished. Each of us who falls is an inspiration to others.

AMEN!

I often wonder what the tipping point will be. I only hope it will rally those of us willing to do what it takes to return our great country to what it should be.

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

 Individual action is counter productive, for 2 examples look at Timothy McVeigh or the Serb who assassinated Arch Duke Franz Ferdinand, both had valid arguments supporting their actions, in fact, neither was even an individual but both groups were to small to do more than carry out one single action, That is merely a protest, not a revolution. Both were vilified in the press amid much hype that buried their grievances under a mountain of disinformation, Govt. propaganda, and vaguely related side issues.
All successful Revolutions require coordinated actions, for example the seizure of armories, communication centers and transportation centers, in large countries such as the US, France, Russia, or Germany this requires a nation wide organization or coalition of organizations such as the "Sons of Liberty and the Committees of Correspondence in colonial America, the Jacobite movement in France, Russia had a Red coalition made up of several groups that included a small ruthless well conceived group called Bolsheviks but there were other groups that did not plan so far ahead like the Mensheviks. Then of course the Nazi's in Germany failed miserably when they attempted the 1923 Putsch,as a regional Party, they did not rise to power until they had formed a nation wide organization. While that was not, strictly speaking, a revolution they DID utilize many of the same tactics such as the burning of the Riechstag as tactics in consolidating their power.
Another feature shared by all of the examples was the elimination of the opposition after their victory. America's tories were induced to leave, fleeing to Canada, England, and the Bahamas, France had the "reign of terror" Germany started it's Concentration Camps, not for Jews but for political opponents. Russia's purges started  with the October Revolution and continued till after the death of Stalin.
In your post you state
"Your post makes it appear that you have already determined the 2010 elections won’t appreciably change what is going on regardless of who wins."
That is correct, not even the election of Ronald Reagan was enough to stop the slide toward socialist dictatorship that started under FDR (which is kind of funny, My Great Grandfather used to curse "that damned Rus velt"  ) Reagan managed to slow the slide, but at the expense of being constantly reviled by the communist media and Democrat left, but he ONLY slowed it. You also state in your post
It looks to me that you probably have all the justification you need.  You live in a State that gives you the right to revolt.  So why are you waiting?
That also is correct, my personal line in the sand was crossed during the Clinton administration when VP Al  Gore, acting in his capacity as Senate President cast the tie breaking vote authorizing already overburdened social security benefits for illegal aliens. and Congress passed the AWB. That is the time that Patriotic Americans should have risen and vented their wrath on the self righteous elitists who hide their socialist power grabbing behind the BS phrase "it's for the children", it isn't, it's for power. Power that is rightfully OURS, not congress, or the President's , but the sole property of "We the people".
You ask why I am waiting ?  Two different aspects of the same reason. I am enough of a student of history to know what is needed for a successful revolution, and I am honest enough with myself to know that I lack the eloquence, organizational ability or financial resources to get the job done. I have no national level exposure, and probably would not be happy with it if I did, some of those MSM interviewers would probably get my back hand judging by the way they treated Palin  
While I would be happy, no, Proud, to follow a reputable, leader who actually had some kind of a chance. And would with equal pride lay down my life for the cause of American Liberty in combat. I am more qualified for thinking about plans and policies than for leadership. You will note here that Ben Franklin was as avid a Patriot as any one  but he fought HIS revolutionary battles in the drawing rooms of Europe, Jefferson is another who fought for freedom with his brain rather than leading charges against the British.

Actually I'm rather enjoying this thread, it is making me articulate things that have been circling in my mind as a general sense of disgust and disillusionment.    
I will also point out that most of what I post are NOT originating with me but are an amalgam of many other writers and historions ranging from Robert Heinlein and Alexander Solzhenitsyn, to Barbara Tuchmann and John Keegan.

[tombogan03884]

Bryand, based on the past, it will be about 5-10 % outside the military. The military will probably as in 1860 be split down the middle. The best result there would be for the Navy and Air Force to remain above the fray to safe guard the nuke forces and guarantee our ability to fight it out uninterrupted by foreign intervention.

[MAUSERMAN]

Leadership? We have that in this country?

[tombogan03884]

Watchman, While this video deals with INTERnational relations it is worth thinking about in this context

http://www.pjtv.com/video/Afterburner_with_Bill_Whittle/Warmongers_or_Peacemakers%3A_Who_Will_Be_Responsible_for_Scorching_the_Earth%3F/2591/

[WatchManUSA]

Tom, I agree with you on almost every issue.  I love our nation and, like you, will fight for liberty and freedom.  I share your frustration with the current political situation.  Where you and I diverge is on your repeated advocacy of violent revolt. 
 
You may recall that this not the first time I have taken issue with your advocacy of violence.  It's not that I think violence would never be warranted, rather I do not agree that all lesser avenues of substantive change have been exhausted.  Armed insurrection is extremely serious.  As a student of history you know the personal price many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence  However, the price was not just paid by the men who signed the Declaration.  Their friends and families paid a steep price, too.
 
Of those 56 who signed the Declaration of Independence, nine died of wounds or hardships during the war. Five were captured and imprisoned, in each case with brutal treatment. Several lost wives, sons or entire families. One lost his 13 children. Two wives were brutally treated. All were at one time or another the victims of manhunts and driven from their homes. Twelve signers had their homes completely burned. Seventeen lost everything they owned.
 
When the Declaration of Independence was adopted there were no trumpets blown. No one stood on their chairs and cheered. No one relished the fact that the killing and suffering of many people was about to begin.  All accounts indicate that it was very understated yet all the signers knew what it meant.
 
In my view, continually posting that you are about ready to begin "killing these bastards" cheapens the seriousness of the issue and the price that would be paid by many people. 
 
I really don't care if you agree with me or not.  Quite often people can have common ground on many issues yet not agree on all.  People are allowed to be different.  We can agree to disagree.  You can continue to advocate violence and I will continue to needle you about it.