Author Topic: Car Self Defense repost  (Read 6590 times)

Ksail101

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Car Self Defense repost
« on: October 29, 2009, 10:28:37 AM »
In light of Mr. Bane talking about car self defense I wanted to repost a thing I wrote about car self defense to maybe give some people a couple things to think about. By no means am I a professional and I have about 8 things like this about different self defense topics if you like I can send you them through email but I thought I would re-post this for people who never read or saw the first time. There are a few changes than on the first post but much of it is the same...

CQB. Being safe in the car.

After all the great replies to my home defense expose, as Rastus so rightly called it, I thought about maybe doing a couple other in depth personal defense essays and see what happens. I learned a great deal from the replies to the home defense essay and hope that others did as well. A reply to use a "code word" to let others in which you live with know that we are under some sort of an attack and act accordingly is just one of the great things I heard that may just save a life in the future. So with this essay I hope to hear something similar or maybe give some ideas to you all as well.

So as you all know by now, my pup was in the hospital and I had to do something to get my mind on something else and yet spend some time on something that would be constructive. Television was not working. So I decided that I would like to look into Personal Defense in my car. I wanted to get in my car and go over some things I already have learned, that I don't practice enough, and maybe learn a couple things that may help me should I be in a situation that endangers my life or that of my passengers that does not have to do with some sort of vehicular accident. In other words when I am driving downtown and some one wants my car while I am still in it. Getting "Car Jacked."

I guess the first thing to this is the choice or weapon. I am like many of you and have heard and read all the advantages to the Taurus Judge and the 410 shot shell followed up with the .45 colt  as the definitive car gun. Well this poor boy has not had the chance to use this fire arm so in that sense I don't own one to make that case or debunk it. From everything I have seen with it I would have to say that it sure does look like the best choice if money and\or availability is not an issue. With all this said my primary carry gun is the gun I use in my car. I do not have a separate car gun nor do I have a safe or lockable box in my car to store one if I should leave my vehicle for any amount of time. So what I carry is what I got. My typical carry gun is a Glock 19.

So the first thing I did was I got in my car and put my seat belt on and practiced my draw. The first scenario was Glock 19 in Bianchi IWB with thumb break. (one of the most popular Bianchi's sold) http://www.bianchi-intl.com/product/Prod.php?TxtModelID=3S. This went through my head while practicing: Window down rockin to some tunes just a typical summers day. Next thing you know you are in the stuff. Now to draw this firearm with my seat-belt on, from the drivers side, was a real pain and most likely would not end up well for me in a Car Jacking situation. For one the element of surprise would be lost with the fumbling that would ensue, no doubt, in the high stress situation. One thing I have found with wearing any holster on the hip, on the drivers side, is you have an element of surprise. The perpetrator is unable to really get a good look at where the seat belt buckle is\ where your holster is. So when he\she thinks you are complying and reaching down to unbuckle your seat belt you are really drawing your gun. So another good reason to always have your seat belt buckled. But with that said there is a lot in your way down there when you are trying to draw in a high stress situation. Now I guess this is as good of time as any to also state that possibly of a treat is not always just some guy with a gun in your ear, this could be someone just outside your car trying to do you harm. A video posted on here one time of a guy bashing some woman's car with a crowbar for a camera, well the person in that car if armed, had all the right to defend them selves. And as Michael Bane says maybe it is just a time of Social Dislocation and people are going crazy. So either way if you are going to draw your gun and you need it right then, you have sort of a labyrinth you must pull it out of all while not looking most likely, when drawing from an IWB in the car. So practice is imperative. You have to be able to do this blind, in the dark, and in a very stressful time. Practice. One thing I did was I got out of my truck and ran up and down my driveway as hard as I could a couple of times and threw in some pushups so my arms and hands we shaking a little and my heart rate was up and I tried this draw a couple times. It was not easy.

I drive a lot in a day. I have to go from my house to south Seattle which is about 27 miles each way. Doesn't seem much, but traffic and being in downtown can lead to times of over an hour one way and most of that is in Urban areas, and the south end of Seattle is the "bad area." So being armed in my car and being able to access that firearm quickly is very important. Also when I step out of my car I need to be armed. So it is hard in a well populated area, in a parking lot in that area, to transfer a hand gun from off body to body, with the handgun not being seen. So basically I have to keep the firearm on me in the car so I can be armed when I exit the car. If someone should see me holstering a handgun before I exit the car, where I live, the cops will jump me before I have a chance to say I have a license. People will freak and call the cops immediately where I live. So I must carry concealed while driving. Now the best way I have found to do this, through trial and error and spending a ridiculous amount of time in my car, is with a Galco Miami Classic shoulder rig. For one, on long trips to Eastern Washington, it is so much more comfortable than having something digging into my hip for hours on end, Also I have found, as you can tell I am right handed, with the shoulder holster, and gun being on my left side, I can draw with it faster and uninterrupted from the seat belt, steering wheel, all those problems I faced with the hip holster are not there. It is a fast draw with practice, and the gun is already there on target, there is no bringing it up sideways all that stuff. It is draw and I am there. So for me and what I have experienced is the shoulder holster is the way to go in the car. Also when I exit the car I am concealed and in the summer time I just wear a button up short sleeve shirt and i am good to go. And of course winter time any jacket will conceal the shoulder system.  So I am an advocate of the shoulder rig. It just makes sense for my life and the ways I need to be able to access my firearm.

Now I am not saying for everyone to go out and buy a shoulder rig system, but it is something to think about. It is one way I have found to be able to draw quickly and be on target in a car quickly. Now that I went over some of that, here are some ways I have found to help avoid being in the situation that you must use your handgun in your car. Air-conditioning is your friend. If you are  not on the freeway or high way doing 80 mph or on some hidden road in the back country and haven't seen anyone in hours, leave your window up. I know some people don't have A\C but man when I drive into SODO (south seattle) area and see these guys with the window down in there BMW at the stop light rockin out to Phil Collins I just smile cause I know I am safe. That person will be car jacked way before the perps even think about me. Know the area you are in, and know the roads where ever you live. I hate when I get in someone's car and they have lived here their entire life and cant get around. Be able to know the roads  so if you need to dodge out you can. Every time I travel to a city and I have to drive I always get a road map at the gas station or where ever of that city. Now I am not talking about every where I drive, but if I go on vacation to say Phoenix I buy a map of the city find where my motel is, and look at all the roads around me. I highlight main access to my motel and to the freeways out of town. I have done this ever since I was on a training mission in a small town that I was not familiar with, my partner and I were doing simulated surveillance, we were compromised, and we were trying to get away from the bad guys in a Van and we got lost cause we had no idea where we were and hit a dead end. That was the only mission our team failed in those two weeks. And maps were handed out, we just didn't think about studying more than the roads we were going to use to get to and from our AO.  Also bullets will go through car doors and windows, so you are not safe if you are getting shot at in your car. It works the other way too, if you got someone that you need to take down and don't have time to roll down your window just start shooting.

Any time we were on the roads over seas I would sit almost sideways in my seat with a foot hanging out the door and my rifle in a position that I could bring it up and  aim anywhere in my field of fire in a split second. Also I had guys on the other side of the vehicle doing the same that I was.  Since you cant do that here, sit in your car and turn yourself in your seat with your seat belt on and off to see where you can aim. Can you shoot out your rear passenger door\ window if you are in your drivers seat? A rifle, no matter if its a .357 lever gun, AR, AK, or Shotgun is very acceptable to carry in your car if you feel the need that it may be useful, Check the laws of course. But I would always rather have too much firepower than not enough. Run Flat liners for your tires, though expensive, are worth it. When bullets start flying, tires are like trees and walls for some reason bullets just love hitting them. If I was to ever live on the border of Mexico I would probably have them in my ride just cause all the news of stray rounds flying around down there. It would be a sure bet that you be able to get to a safe place before exiting your car.
  
Well this is what I have gone through in my attempt at car self defense review. I hope you all can add to it. I know I didn't get into the details of thinking like the criminals and the many situations as I did before but I am trying to make this so people will read it without getting bored.
Did we win???

tombogan03884

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Re: Car Self Defense repost
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2009, 11:46:56 AM »
You seem to have thought this through carefully and stated it well, my only comment is that I look forward to any similar posts you may wish to put up.
If you don't want to post them go ahead and send them to me. I look forward to reading them.

m25operator

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Re: Car Self Defense repost
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2009, 09:21:24 PM »
Nice Kman, thanks, well thought out and good questions to ask ones self. Glad you had a moment or 2 to put this together.

I hope the new job is still going well and fulfilling, I also hope it opens doors for better position and pay, but also relocating to places your more welcome, yourself and your shall we say, lifestyle.

Good to see you posting. PM me when we might talk on the phone, I know your schedule is hard and you need your sleep.
" The Pact, to defend, if not TO AVENGE '  Tarna the Tarachian.

Ping

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Re: Car Self Defense repost
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2009, 12:36:47 PM »
Very well written Ksail101. Now that the weather is cooler and the ability to wear a light jacket, I have switched to my shoulder holster. I must say that I appreciate this time of year and the comfort of carrying my Glock 30SF with ease.

twyacht

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Re: Car Self Defense repost
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2009, 09:23:09 PM »
Thanks Ksail, I have another scenario for you and DRTV for  consideration that I try to deal with while driving.

That is being left handed. For me, a strong side IWB, or pocket carry works fine for short trips, but even with a shoulder rig for a lefty, my strong arm is on the drivers door side. Evasive moves toward the passenger seat while drawing right handed is just more ergonomically correct, than a lefty.

I would come up cross draw with a big sweep to get on target on the drivers side. For you right handers try some weak hand drills sitting in your car, getting to a target on the drivers side with your left hand.

Any thoughts as to Ksail's post for a left hander? Or run their ass over?

Thank you.

tw



Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

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Re: Car Self Defense repost
« Reply #5 on: Today at 08:49:52 PM »

tombogan03884

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Re: Car Self Defense repost
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2009, 10:50:39 PM »
Run their ass over is ALWAYS the best option. Which has more "Stopping power" a 230grain projectile, or a 2,100,000 Grain one ?
Second best, seems to be either get a car with right hand drive, in which case the BG is put off balance by finding himself on the wrong side giving you reaction time while he adjusts, but you have to fire across any passenger. OR, practice shooting right handed and while driving keep your pistol between the seat and the console.

fightingquaker13

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Re: Car Self Defense repost
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2009, 11:19:43 PM »
I am a rank amateur compared to ksail or Pincus and others. I do have two bits of advice that you can take or leave.
First, you are most likely to get in trouble at a stop light,at least here in South Florida, car jack capital of the nation.. Therefore, DO NOT pull up close to the car in front of you. I stop 1 to  1 1/2 car lenghths behind the the car in front of me me. This gives me room to hit the gas, jerk the wheel and head either left or right.Yes, I might hit another car, but at least I am away from the car jacker and everyone around will be calling 911. Don't get boxed in, ever. This is something you control, be aware of it.  Secondly, I drive an F-150. One of the many admirable features of this fine American automobile is the fact that the door panels have a slot at about knee level that runs the length of the door.Mine is filled with doubled CD cases, a wadded up hand towell, and my glock.All I have to do is drop my left hand to the seat belt  to "comply", pull the pistol (out of sight of the drivers side window) and see whether 9mm will REALLY punch through a car door. Just my .02, take it or leave it.
FQ13

DonWorsham

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Re: Car Self Defense repost
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2009, 09:26:12 AM »
I stop 1 to  1 1/2 car lenghths behind the the car in front of me me. This gives me room to hit the gas, jerk the wheel and head either left or right.

If you can see the tires of the car in front of you touching the ground, you have room to maneuver past that car.
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MikeBjerum

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Re: Car Self Defense repost
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2009, 09:40:08 AM »
If you can see the tires of the car in front of you touching the ground, you have room to maneuver past that car.

This is what we were taught in emergency driving, and in defensive driving they added to always be in a lane with an out (far left or far right) and turn your wheels that way when stopped.  However, if in far left be careful about being thrown into on coming traffic.  The idea of the wheel turn is that if you are rear ended in an attack the crash will result in starting your way out rather than pinning you against the vehicle ahead.

Since I don't always drive vehicles with short turn radius I always try to visualize where the rear bumper of the car ahead would meet the ground for my visual reference.
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Re: Car Self Defense repost
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2009, 10:05:50 AM »
If you can see the tires of the car in front of you touching the ground, you have room to maneuver past that car.


or you could just drive a 1 ton truck that is ~ 7k  lbs  and just push them out of the way   ;D 

Hell with my push bars up front and my solid steel bumber chances are I won't even damage my truck doing it.   
I always break all the clay pigeons,  some times its even with lead.

 

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