Author Topic: It's alive! End-of-life counseling in health bill  (Read 1661 times)

tombogan03884

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It's alive! End-of-life counseling in health bill
« on: October 29, 2009, 10:13:29 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091030/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_death_panels

WASHINGTON – It's alive. The Medicare end-of-life planning provision that 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin said was tantamount to "death panels" for seniors is staying in the latest Democratic health care bill unveiled Thursday.

The provision allows Medicare to pay for voluntary counseling to help beneficiaries deal with the complex and painful decisions families face when a loved one is approaching death.

More at link

fightingquaker13

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Re: It's alive! End-of-life counseling in health bill
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2009, 10:40:06 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091030/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_death_panels

WASHINGTON – It's alive. The Medicare end-of-life planning provision that 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin said was tantamount to "death panels" for seniors is staying in the latest Democratic health care bill unveiled Thursday.

The provision allows Medicare to pay for voluntary counseling to help beneficiaries deal with the complex and painful decisions families face when a loved one is approaching death.

More at link
This is a far cry from "death panels". I moved in with my mom and step dad a year and a half ago when he was diagnosed with terminal colon cancer. My mom's health isn't that great and they needed someone to help out. He was lucky in that he had insurance that covered in home hospice care. It provided a hospital bed, an O2 machine and nurses aids, as well as meds and visits by RNs a Dr. The thing is though, the whole thing took months. Most of it was ok, he could still move around and enjoy life, but the last six weeks or so were grim. He chose to stick it out. He did, however have a medical power of attorney given to my mom with a DNR order. Me, I'm not sure I would have stuck it out for those few painful weeks. I do think that when faced with the inevitable, folks should be able to meet it on their own terms (no this is not an argument for euthenasia), just saying that the options should be on the table for the patient and no one else. I really do think that after seeing it first hand with my uncle who died ugly of juvenile diabetes and my step dad, that providing counciling and options for the terminally ill is a good thing. After spending time in a room watching two people I loved dearly die slow and ugly, I am pissed beyond words at opportunists like Palin comparing giving them those options to leaving grandma on an ice flow to die. Lets be real, most of us will have a doc come out shaking his head with test results we don't want to see. Public insurance or private, I want to know what the options are. Screw those who use this kind of information that we will all need and want, as a way to further an agenda. This isn't a defense of Obamacare (which I oppose, I thought I was voting for the opportunity to buy into the federal employee health care plan, nothing more, as promised in the campaign). It is however an attack on a level of cynical opportunism that I find distateful in the extreme.
FQ13

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Re: It's alive! End-of-life counseling in health bill
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2009, 12:39:14 PM »
This is a far cry from "death panels". I moved in with my mom and step dad a year and a half ago when he was diagnosed with terminal colon cancer. My mom's health isn't that great and they needed someone to help out. He was lucky in that he had insurance that covered in home hospice care. It provided a hospital bed, an O2 machine and nurses aids, as well as meds and visits by RNs a Dr. The thing is though, the whole thing took months. Most of it was ok, he could still move around and enjoy life, but the last six weeks or so were grim. He chose to stick it out. He did, however have a medical power of attorney given to my mom with a DNR order. Me, I'm not sure I would have stuck it out for those few painful weeks. I do think that when faced with the inevitable, folks should be able to meet it on their own terms (no this is not an argument for euthenasia), just saying that the options should be on the table for the patient and no one else. I really do think that after seeing it first hand with my uncle who died ugly of juvenile diabetes and my step dad, that providing counciling and options for the terminally ill is a good thing. After spending time in a room watching two people I loved dearly die slow and ugly, I am pissed beyond words at opportunists like Palin comparing giving them those options to leaving grandma on an ice flow to die. Lets be real, most of us will have a doc come out shaking his head with test results we don't want to see. Public insurance or private, I want to know what the options are. Screw those who use this kind of information that we will all need and want, as a way to further an agenda. This isn't a defense of Obamacare (which I oppose, I thought I was voting for the opportunity to buy into the federal employee health care plan, nothing more, as promised in the campaign). It is however an attack on a level of cynical opportunism that I find distateful in the extreme.
FQ13

First off, having seen both my Mom and Dad at or near the end, my condolences on what you had to go through with your family members. It is never an easy time.

However, I have to slam you once again as your judgment is clouded by your hatred of Palin and all things GOP, this time mixed with a dash of good, liberal emotion.  You say you are not arguing for euthanasia but you do want people to be advised of their "options"? What options? Life or death? It's end of life counselling, it's not like there are too many options. Only do yourself in or wait for the inevitable. So how do these "options" work?

You are also only looking at the short term, the here-and-now. Even if - as you say - this is not the "death panels" - do you honestly think for one second that with all that bho and his minions, combined with the kongress kritters, have done so far, that the writing is not on the wall? It is called incrementalism - if we can't get it all today, we'll settle for 80% now, another 20% next year, another 20% the year after, another 20% the year after that, and so on?

There is great danger in trying to reason with evil.

And yes I do think you are trying to reason this out. And yes I do believe that bho and his minions represent a form of evil we are ill prepared to deal with. These are people who are knowingly, willingly, eagerly selling out the American dream, the American way of life, and the American people at a scale and a pace - and an almost joyful glee - unimagined by the Founders of this country.

That they aren't the first does not give them a pass. That they are the ones actively destroying the remnants of the American experiment I hope reserves for them a very special place in hell. With their apologists and useful idiots close at hand. Take care that you do not find yourself in that special place in hell by being their apologists or useful idiot, FQ. You come close at times.
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Re: It's alive! End-of-life counseling in health bill
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2009, 01:31:19 PM »
This stuff happens everyday. It's called a living will, where you get to decide to what extremes you want to stay alive. Nothing wrong there. Some people want everything done up to the last beat of thier heart and then some, others don't want anything. Personal choice.

I, personally, would not want to live life stuck to a ventilator whether I had my wits about me or not. Quality of life reasons and I could not be a burden like that on my family. Your opinion may differ.

The other side of this is what your definition of "everything" is when it comes to medical treatment. Ask 10 different people and get 10 different answers. This is a discussion that needs to be handled between the patient and doctor to make sure they are on the same page. Most people don't understand the things that we will do to them when they want "everything" done. Once it is explained what will happen, some change thier minds, some don't, especially people with terminal illnesses that can't be saved anyway. Suddenly "everything" doesn't look so good anymore.

I'm not in favor of this legislation, it's just another attempt for the govt to stick it's nose where it doesn't belong and take away more personal responsibility. This discussion is something that can happen during your regular doctors visit and doesn't need a law to apply it.
"I'd love to spit some Beechnut in that dudes eye and shoot him with my old .45"  Hank Jr.

tombogan03884

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Re: It's alive! End-of-life counseling in health bill
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2009, 02:06:07 PM »
 What has the Government EVER gotten right ? Give me one good reason to think this health care bill will not be just as screwed up as the IRS, Amtrac, or the Post Office.

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Re: It's alive! End-of-life counseling in health bill
« Reply #5 on: Today at 05:56:57 AM »

tt11758

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Re: It's alive! End-of-life counseling in health bill
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2009, 02:34:12 PM »
What has the Government EVER gotten right ?


Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
I love waking up every morning knowing that Donald Trump is President!!

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Re: It's alive! End-of-life counseling in health bill
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2009, 02:37:00 PM »
When the government happens to get a program right it is more the case of the proverbial blind squirrel finding an acorn.

They do things out of a political motivation rather than actually achieving a measurable outcome.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies." (Groucho Marx)

tombogan03884

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Re: It's alive! End-of-life counseling in health bill
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2009, 02:55:49 PM »

Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, this is the exception that proves the rule.

 

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