Open and Concealed Carry

[Road Hog]

I live in Washington State where we have both open and concealed pistol carry.  Presumeably one can carry open without a license but one must have a CPL to carry concealed.  What I don't understand is if I carry concealed with a license and the weapon accidently shows, then I could be quilty of brandishing or something else.  The gun here has not left the holster and I might not even be aware of the exposure.  Why are open and concealed carry methods mutually exclusive?  My logic tells me that these two methods of carry would be inclusive, i.e., if my concealed weapon accidently shows and I have a license, that should end it legally.  And if my open carry becomes concealed for a second, my CPL should rectify that situation.

The whole thing makes no sense to me where an unintentional exception to the carry method supposedly violates the law..

Help me understand this legal exclusivity.   

RH

[MikeBjerum]

I'll let someone with more knowledge or the wish to express themselves fill you in.

Here in Minnesota carry is not defined as open or concealed.  A permit allows you to do either.  However, it has been discussed on more than one thread the reason to conceal vs. carry open.

I'll sit back and read the next 42 pages that are just starting.

[tombogan03884]

To put it into technical terms your permit laws were written by liberal anti rights assholes that could not get the law stopped, so instead they added stupid clauses.

[fightingquaker13]

That truly does seem FUBAR. In Tx. and Fl. concealed meant concealed. Visible meant brandishing. Yet if you have open carry and a CPL that should cover both. Its like saying you can swim naked or in a bikini, but if just go topless its indecent exposure.
FQ13 who does not even pretend to understand

[tombogan03884]

Up here the way the law is, there is no restriction on open carry, BUT if your shirt or jacket should so much as cover the grip, leaving the rest of the holster exposed , you better have a CCW. But if you have a CCW and your pistol gets exposed no problem.

[Sponsor]

[Walter45Auto]

We can't understand it. Your laws as well as most gun laws, are written by Liberal Sheep. Makes no sense to us either. Also makes no sense that here in Texas with my CHL, I can carry as many handguns as I can conceal, but I can't carry a switchblade or a Bowie knife cause I might cause trouble with those.

[PegLeg45]

General consensus and interpretation is that the license covers both CC and OC. I had a judge in one county tell me they considered OC as legal under the first section below (i.e. as long as you had a license, it covered both).

Here's an example of Georgia's laws:



O.C.G.A. § 16-11-126
Carrying a concealed weapon

(a) A person commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon when such person knowingly has or carries about his or her person, unless in an open manner and fully exposed to view, any bludgeon, knuckles whether made from metal, thermoplastic, wood, or other similar material, firearm, knife designed for the purpose of offense and defense, or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument of like character outside of his or her home or place of business, except as permitted under this Code section.

(b) Upon conviction of the offense of carrying a concealed weapon, a person shall be punished as follows:

   (1) For the first offense, he or she shall be guilty of a misdemeanor; and

   (2) For the second offense, and for any subsequent offense, he or she shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be imprisoned for not less than two years and not more than five years.

(c) This Code section shall not permit, outside of his or her home, motor vehicle, or place of business, the concealed carrying of a pistol, revolver, or concealable firearm by any person unless that person has on his or her person a valid license issued under Code Section 16-11-129 and the pistol, revolver, or firearm may only be carried in a shoulder holster, waist belt holster, any other holster, hipgrip, or any other similar device, in which event the weapon may be concealed by the person's clothing, or a handbag, purse, attache case, briefcase, or other closed container. Any person having been issued a license to carry a concealed weapon pursuant to Code Section 16-11-129 shall be permitted to carry such weapon, subject to the limitations of this part, in all parks, historic sites, or recreational areas as defined by Code Section 12-3-10 and in all wildlife management areas.

(d) This Code section shall not forbid the transportation of any firearm by a person who is not among those enumerated as ineligible for a license under Code Section 16-11-129, provided the firearm is enclosed in a case, unloaded, and separated from its ammunition.

(e) This Code section shall not forbid any person who is not among those enumerated as ineligible for a license under Code Section 16-11-129 from transporting a loaded firearm in any private passenger motor vehicle.

(f) On and after October 1, 1996, a person licensed to carry a handgun in any state whose laws recognize and give effect within such state to a license issued pursuant to this part shall be authorized to carry a handgun in this state, but only while the licensee is not a resident of this state; provided, however, that such license holder shall carry the handgun in compliance with the laws of this state.



O.C.G.A. § 16-11-128
Carrying pistol without license

   (a) A person commits the offense of carrying a pistol without a license when he has or carries on or about his person, outside of his home, motor vehicle, or place of business, any pistol or revolver without having on his person a valid license issued by the judge of the probate court of the county in which he resides, provided that no permit shall be required for persons with a valid hunting or fishing license on their person or for persons not required by law to have hunting licenses who are engaged in legal hunting, fishing, or sport shooting when the persons have the permission of the owner of the land on which the activities are being conducted; provided, further, that the pistol or revolver, whenever loaded, shall be carried only in an open and fully exposed manner.

(b) Upon conviction of the offense of carrying a pistol without a license, a person shall be punished as follows:

   (1) For the first offense, he shall be guilty of a misdemeanor; and

   (2) For the second offense, and for any subsequent offense, he is guilty of a felony, and, upon conviction thereof, shall be imprisoned for not less than one year nor more than five years.

(c) On and after October 1, 1996, a person licensed to carry a handgun in any state whose laws recognize and give effect within such state to a license issued pursuant to this part shall be authorized to carry a handgun in this state, but only while the licensee is not a resident of this state; provided, however, that such license holder shall carry the handgun in compliance with the laws of this state.

http://www.georgiapacking.org/GaCode/?title=16&chapter=11&section=126

This is the current general interpretation of the above laws:

Carrying firearms

Short Version

Basically to carry a handgun openly or concealed in the state of Georgia (outside of your home, your car, or your business), you must have a Georgia Firearm License issued under code 16-11-129 and the concealed handgun must be carried in any type of holster or any other securing device. There are exceptions, read below to find out what those are.

Long Version

There are 2 seperate laws of Georgia that address the carrying of firearms in public. You can be violating one or both depending on your actions.

Concealed Weapons: are defined as any bludgeon (asp baton, nun chucks, ect), metal knuckles, firearm (this means ANY firearm capable of being concealed, not just handguns), knife designed for the purpose of offense and defense (swords, ballistic knives), or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument that is not carried in an open manner and fully exposed to view. For weapons to be considered not to be concealed, the weapon grip or the handle must NOT be hidden or covered up by the person's clothing or in the person's pockets (unless the grip is completely exposed). Weapons MUST be able to be visible through ordinary observation. This law does not apply to carrying a concealed weapon in a person's own home, and place of business (including the property of the business is located on IF it is owned by the business owner). You do not have to have permission from the owner in order to be exempt from carrying a concealed weapon without a license at your place of business (however that does NOT mean you cannot be fired for carrying without permission). This law does not permit, outside of a person's home, motor vehicle, or place of business, the concealed carrying of a pistol, revolver, or concealable firearm by any person unless that person has on his or her person a valid license issued under Code Section 16-11-129 and even then the person may only carry the pistol, revolver, or concealable firearm only in a shoulder holster, waist belt holster, or any other holster (ankle holster, crotch holster, fanny pack holster, pocket holster,ect) and also a hipgrip or any other similar securing device (a hipgrip is a type of grip that has a clip sticking out to hook on to your belt or pants, a similar device to the hipgrip is a clip) at which point the weapon MAY BE concealed by the person's clothing, or handbag, purse, briefcase, or any other close container. (Concealed carry is an option but is NOT required to carry a firearm. Firearms can be openly carried. However if you are concealing, the firearm MUST be carried in a holster, clip or similar type of securing device)

This code section does not forbid the carrying of a loaded handgun in any private motor vehicle by a person who is not licensed, but also who is not prohibited from possessing a firearm, in an open manner and totally exposed to view. For those who are not listed as ineligible for a license (found below in the "Firearm License Carrying" section) may also place the gun anywhere inside the vehicle. A person who has a license issued under code 16-11-129 may carry a loaded handgun in any location, openly or concealed, in the vehicle. (This section does not address the legality of concealing a loaded rifle or shotgun in one's motor vehicle. I would assume that if you have a license then you would be fine, but use common sense and caution)Violation of this code section is a misdemeanor for a first offense and a felony for a 2nd or subsequent offense.(16-11-126)

Carrying a pistol without a license: You must have a license to carry a handgun, openly or concealed, outside of your own home, place of business, and motor vehicle. If you are carrying a handgun to or from your home or place of business and cross over any property not owned by you, then you would be in violation of carry a pistol without a license if you did not have a license. This law only applies to carrying handguns and does NOT apply to rifles or shotguns, so a person could carry a rifle or shotgun openly, not concealed, in public and not be in violation of the law. The only exception to this law is no permit shall be required for persons with a valid hunting or fishing license on their person or for persons not required by law to have hunting licenses who are engaged in legal hunting, fishing, or sport shooting when the persons have the permission of the owner of the land on which the activities are being conducted; provided, further, that the pistol or revolver, whenever loaded, shall be carried only in an open and fully exposed manner. Violation of this code section is a misdemeanor for a first offense and a felony for a 2nd or subsequent offense.(16-11-128)

Employment exception: Persons employed in certain jobs (whether at work or off-duty) are exempt from the 2 laws above. Jobs such as peace officer, Wardens, superintendents, and keepers of correctional institutions, jails, or other institutions for the detention of persons accused or convicted of an offense, persons in the military service of the state or of the United States, and others. Please see 16-11-130 for the full list.

http://georgiapacking.org/law.php

[2HOW]

we can carry either way with a CHP if we print or show it wont matter. Brandishing is the act of handling a gun, and more than not, waving it around.
bran·dish (brndsh)
tr.v. bran·dished, bran·dish·ing, bran·dish·es
1. To wave or flourish (a weapon, for example) menacingly.
2. To display ostentatiously. See Synonyms at flourish.
n.
A menacing or defiant wave or flourish.

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Glad I dont live there.

[Timothy]

Believe it or not, MA is quite the same as TN.  Anyone with an LTC can carry either concealed or openly.  Brandishing is an act of showing the gun in a threatening manner, having your shirt blow up in the wind is NOT brandishing or threatening in any way!

Nuf said....untill the State figures out their own law, it shouldn't change!