Gun Free Zones

[philw]

ponder this




as we all know  that you are not allowed to carry in gun free zones  ( hell i live on one )   expept the criminals out there on hurting or killing people

now  if it hits the fan you need to call the police to stop the violent actors  as you are not allowed to stop them as the laws / rules prohibited you carrying a firearm for self defence in the school/ Shopping Mall / work place  what ever..  


let say you end up being a victim or someone you know has injured not killed  or if you had been killed  I am talking about your family.    


after it has all ended  and everything has calmed down ( I am talk a few weeks or more )


now  it is my understanding that the police  don't have to protect you and there has been court cases regarding this.  ( and not I am not having a go at police they have a tough job)

now to my point  ( and I am not normally a big fan of lawyers )


why can you not sue the the school / management / government  owners of the location the incident   by having a gun free zone and not allowing you to protect your self  and due to this  a nutter was able to injurer / kill.   and they did not proved adequate protection and security.  



 

[fightingquaker13]

Phil
I am with you 100%. The difference between OZ an the US is the Bill of Rights. The 5A guarntees the right to property (which presumbably includes setting terms and conditions on folks who enter your house or place of business). However the 2A says you have the right to keep and bear arms, and that that right "shall not be infringed". So which right trumps the other? Both are fundamental, and both are Constitutionally guaranteed. I, to no one's surprise, say that the 2A trumps the 5A as the right to self defence is a fundamental human right that should rank ahead of property rights. Still, I would be dishonest if I didn't acknowledge the other side had valid Constitutional support. In the US we can hash this out in the Court. Y'all are stuck with a vote of politicians in parliment. Not a slam, or even a preference of our system over yours. It's just the difference between a democracy and a republic. Its about having a body that (rightly or wrongly) can strike down an act of the legislature by saying "You've exeeded your authority".  
FQ13

[JC5123]

Unfortunately neither right trumps the other, as they are both fundamental. So though it sucks, the simple solution is to avoid places that will not allow you to defend yourself. I understand that sometimes you simply have to go somewhere that doesn't allow firearms, but usually you can get your business done at these places quickly and be on your way. While you're in there talk to someone about it. Maybe you can change some minds.

Also realize, many businesses lease the space for their storefronts. If they are calling themselves gun free, ask who put the sign up. Because if it wasn't the property OWNER, that sign doesn't mean much. Besides if you are properly concealed, no one should ever notice anyway.

Yes I am guilty of carrying in places that I am not supposed to. But I feel that it is my RIGHT to protect myself, and as a citizen it is my responsiblity to protect everyone around me. Even if they don't agree with me, or even despise me for my choice.

[tombogan03884]

I'm no lawyer, (one of my redeeming qualities ) but I believe the Constitutional protection of "Property" only applies to "officialdom". I do not think you can sue I thief for violating your civil rights. I would be amused to hear of any court precedents that prove me wrong.

It seems that FQ has been taking lessons from TAB. The "property rights" that he alludes to do not exist in reality, a practicing Jew, or Christian, can not be refused service on that basis, (Religious belief being a CHOICE) because religion is protected by the 1st amendment, You can not refuse service to some one because they are gay, (not covered by the Constitution but enforced under "equal rights" and Equal protection") there fore the owner of a business "open to the public" (store, restaurant etc. ) has no more right to refuse service to a person who chooses to exercise his 2nd A rights than he does to refuse based on the fact that you chose to vote.
The "property rights argument is a sign a shallow thinking.

[philw]

would it be possible  to take action against the people that create these gun free zones  after an incident / tragedy

I still can not work it out

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

would it be possible  to take action against the people that create these gun free zones  after an incident / tragedy

I still can not work it out

I would hope so. After all, they can sue you if you have an ND and damage is done. On the other hand, if there was sign and you went in willingly and unarmed, were you asuming the risk?
FQ13 whowill  bring pop corn and watch if it does get argued in court.

[philw]

I would hope so. After all, they can sue you if you have an ND and damage is done. On the other hand, if there was sign and you went in willingly and unarmed, were you asuming the risk?
FQ13 whowill  bring pop corn and watch if it does get argued in court.

i know at this stage it is hypothetical

that is my point..   ( in bold )

they don't  allow you to protect your self  legally by having the sign up  so are they going to have an armed security guard walk around with every individual to protect them  as they won't let you do it your self

[tombogan03884]

If there's no metal detector at the door it isn't a "Gun free zone" if I'm going in there. All they can do is ask me to leave, and that's only if they find out I'm carrying.

[alfsauve]

[CAUTION:   THREAD DRIFT}

My friend made some signs a substituted them for actual street signs.   Took several month before anyone noticed.

CAUTION
SCHOOL FREE
DRUG ZONE

Wonder if we could come up with something similar for Gun Free Zones.

[TAB]

If there's no metal detector at the door it isn't a "Gun free zone" if I'm going in there. All they can do is ask me to leave, and that's only if they find out I'm carrying.

that depends on the state... in some states it will cost you your CCW some it will cost you more.

you have a choice rather you go into a store or not...


A court casing saying a "gun free zone" stoped you from defended yourself is bound to fail.  Atleast in reguards to a place of biz you entered... now your home(rental) or a hotel, thats another story.  more so if its like CA and they can't legally stop you from having a weapon in your room.