"Bunker" Mentality.

[Badgersmilk]

Should our nation ever face a real crisis of any magnitude worse than the Katrina storm I sure hope and pray your both right...  The people who are willing to work together to remain civilized will have their hands full.  Let's ALL hope they endure!!!

Plan ahead, be prepared, and do what we each can to ensure they do.  I may not be able to feed a bunch of them, but I know I can share learned practical skills, and arm quite a few!  

[Jackel]

am i the only one that think zombies/ Chinese/ Russian invasion would be fun? 

[tombogan03884]

Don't worry BM, the ones who are willing to sit back and let you do their work will be left to die.The ones who survive will be the ones who do their share and then pitch in to help some one else.

[texcaliber]

+2(wife was reading over my shoulder)  with tom, everyone has to pay for there actions, or lack of, in time.

[bushpilot267]

I used to think my "survivalists" friends were a little crazy. All their books began with a basic premise of an economic fall which cripples the nation. Sure looks like we are headed there now.

Toss in a terrorist act and we have roving gangs looking for food and water.  We nearly had that last summer when gas was short in Atlanta. They would steal your car for the gas.

Put back food and water and stores of ammo to be sure you make it.

My property is atop a mountain. I can see miles down the road. What I can see I can hit. They might get me in the end but this moutain will be littered with those who tried. They will really have to want up here badly to pay the price.

[Sponsor]

[Rastus]

The context of the incident probably dictate the efficacy of a group response. Most events in the modern world are essentially over on a tactical level by the time you could hope to organize the average community or group of neighbors.
.................Other thoughts?

My thought is that we are talking about an extended period of duress that more or less unfolds with various challenges and difficulties that is at least regional (multiple state) in exposure.

.............I think that the concept, which is inherently a good one and has obvious benefits, would require a significant amount of pre-planning and efficient execution of that plan with the group goal in mind as soon as an incident was imminent or occurring. Good luck finding a group that is both motivated and dedicated enough to pull than off in 2010!

Other thoughts?

I think that we should define the discussion to city-state or regional or national.  City-state size I agree a group getting together would be tough...just because of the logistics...it will likely be some type of event(s) that will cause a quick decision to be made and will be over relatively quickly.  I think Katrina was over "relatively quickly".  Now there is lasting damage, but everyone very soon got food, water, shelter and medical attention.  It would be tough for anyone but neighbors to organize and move as a group.  I think, unless blessed with neighbors of like thought, this is unlikely just as you have said. 

Longer term regional or national events that it does not make sense to move because there is nowhere to move to are different.  They would be large in nature and either sudden (you can't really get away, i.e. nuke war) or they unflold more or less slowly.  The more or less slowly is what I have in mind.  In the slow unflolding scenario I think people of like thought can come together for mutual benefit.  I believe our most likely sceenario today is something large that unfolds slowly...the economic mess we are in is unfoldling slowly...if the bubble bursts it will be sudden, but the lead up is slow and some people are prepared.  The caveat to a group is like mind and with me like mind means being prepared and aware which now means having some food and supplies to get to the "other side" of the economic state we may soon see split from this side to some other side.

I don't think it will be to benefit the group...this is a philosophical difference I hope I get right in my explanation.  It will be the group benefiting the individuals who think the same, that will be most successful.  What I am trying to say is that people with the same ideals, will work and sacrifice the same for those common ideals not the preservation of the group...the group is preserved but because they all share in the same mindset...we lay our life down for our child...or a child in the group...because that life is precious...we help those who are sick and give them our share of the food because we believe that is what is right.  We don't extend ourselves to those who chose to stick their heads in the ground because that lessens our chances of getting to "the other side" whatevere that is unless they can provide long term benefit and now are like thinking.  I hope I am making sense here and, Rob, this may be what you meant.

[tombogan03884]

What Rastus is referring to is a group that takes on a "clannishness", or tribal instinct. This is an ancient survival instinct and is why in most native American languages there was no difference between the words for "enemy" and "stranger".
Any stranger was an unknown quantity and therefore posed a threat to the group.
In a longer term survival situation the same will apply. The person who stumbles into your perimeter may be a refugee looking to flee the known threat, or could just as easily be a scout for looters checking out your security before reporting back and planning a raid for your supplies, or a carrier of some nasty illness. Either situation puts the entire group at risk.

[Badgersmilk]

I agree with everything tom say's, and would add that even a "refugee looking to get away from the known threat" is a problem for your clan.  Odd's of an refugee's having their own supplies are SLIM!  So they'll be looking at you and yours as the source of such.  If your group decide this refugee doesn't have needed skills that outway his consumption of supplies you have two choices.  Kill him on the spot, or turn him away only to have him cause far worse trouble for you later in any of a number of ways (if he even talks to other individuals you'll likely face trouble as a result).  Survival of the fittest is not pretty.

I've been told some area's hit by Katrina saw no outside supplies for as long as a month!

[tombogan03884]

BM brings up a valid point that was addressed in Rawles book "Patriots". and a very simple solution was presented.
Never let strangers beyond your outer perimeter until you either decide to accept them or blind fold them so they gain no useful information.
Personally I find that solution more acceptable than killing everyone who happens to stumble on your location.

[Badgersmilk]

   Yeah, all those bodies would start getting ripe after a while.    The key is like you say, keep ALL outsiders from learning anything about you.