"Should" versus "Could"

[2HOW]

I'm pretty sure the distinction between a "lethal" threat and a "real " threat are clear. Like I said the rules of engagement are clear also. Its like the difference between a club and a firearm, like a pool or a pond. A pond may be better for you .

[Rob Pincus]

You want to know how we've prepared mentally for how we would analyze the situation and decide whether or not to shoot?

Yes.... or at least this thread should be getting people's minds around this aspect and away from "If he's in my house, I'll kill 'em" bravado, if that is where they were.

-RJP

[2HOW]

This thread has gotten so obscured that I'm not sure what we are talking about. Lets get back on topic please. Drunk guy banging on your door, what do you do? You shoot the guy who breaks your window thinking he may or may not want to do harm to you,   Give me a break.   

[Rob Pincus]

2HOW,

That was never what the thread was about....  It is about considering the the reality of the NEED to shoot someone as opposed being able to articulate that it was a "good shoot".
 It is also about the importance of training reaction to stress before you encounter it.

It is decidedly not about the tactics of "what to do".. see opening post. The pond is in another thread.

-RJP

[2HOW]

ROB , I totally agree , I think I was cllear about the need to shoot and the  ability to shoot acording to the law. [ the reality of the need to shoot someome ]  Rob that is preciscelly what I was saying . I think we are both saying the same thing .

[Sponsor]

[fullautovalmet76]

I have thought about this a while and here's my take.

I think before anyone gets to that point, they need to have their philosophical, religious , or ethical codes reconciled to who they really are. I remember one of the scenes from the movie, "Saving Private Ryan", the cartographer could not bring himself to kill the German soldier, who happened to be killing one of his team mates.

Another thing that occurred to me is how good is one at being able to accurately determine what is happening in a stressful situation. We have all read or heard of those who can not accurately describe a traffic accident involving one vehicle, even when they are watching it from a short distance. If we have all day, we can methodically make the judgment whether someone poses a genuine danger to our lives. But it doesn't work like that.

How about this:
Maybe the next time you go to the range, maybe you should picture yourself shooting a bad guy and then accidentally shooting a good guy/non-threat. Don't use notorious criminals and politicians you do not like, but maybe some stranger you saw on the street. Do some introspection and think of what you might think of yourself afterward.

Just my thoughts....

[tombogan03884]

 As you read this you need to be aware that in my apt I'm never more than 7 feet from one of the 2 doors (I just measured it ) If a menace, or annoyance is outside the door I see no need to do more than call 911 (arming myself if they are attempting to get in ) and announcing the fact that I have done so.  If the person gains entry the chance that I will shoot sky rockets for the following reasons, 1) If they kicked in your door the chance that they want to borrow a cup of sugar is non existent, They have bad intentions, or they would have waited for you to open it. (remember I've already informed them that I have called 911 and armed myself) 2) Remember those dimensions above ? As soon as the door gives way they are more or less in my face, leaving me very little distance to retreat and  almost no time to choose an alternative. If the person ignores SEEING my pistol the only thing that will prevent me from firing is if the Police arrive before I have to. In my case this IS a possibility as the PD is only about 200 yards away.
Your options may vary.

[Hottrockin]

Mr. Bane’s story was very compelling and what I took away from it was not to forget the best weapon any of us have, our brain.  I’m not saying at all to ever put yourself and / or your family in jeopardy; in a time of duress it’s easy to stop thinking.  You’ve got your gun(s), cell phone, flashlight, dogs, etc. but we always need to be thinking as well.  Grant it, this is just one scenario and changes with each person even in the same situation…kid(s), spouse, home alone, etc. just wanted to say thanks for sharing as I took something away from the account.  No right answer, no wrong answer but food for thought.

[PoorSoulInJersey]

That was never what the thread was about....  It is about considering the the reality of the NEED to shoot someone as opposed being able to articulate that it was a "good shoot".
 It is also about the importance of training reaction to stress before you encounter it.

It is decidedly not about the tactics of "what to do".. see opening post. The pond is in another thread

Let's start off with the caveat that most of us will never know exactly how we will react under pressure.

It's another world, but I spent 6 years competing as a speedskater and 4 years as a cycling. The things you do in the pressure of competition are WAY different than some of the things you do in training most of the time. Of course, most high level competitors find that the more intensely you train, the better your training can resemble the competition. The same goes for firearms and tactical training. What's the saying? "Train as you want to fight?"

I think mental preparation for a dynamic critical incident goes way beyond what most people think of. I've seen people sit around going "What would you do if ....." and present some wild situation to the other person. The other person strokes their chin thoughtfully for a few seconds, then says "ummm..... well..... I guess I'd....." and then some long train of thought comes out. Total time: over a minute.

The theory of working through scenarios is OK, but there's a problem similar to the ones I faced in some of my time trials when I was racing: the goal is not to get there at all, the goal is to get there faster.  In a real incident, you have seconds to both decide and react.Working it through logically could get you or someone else killed. It's highly unlikely that you will have even five seconds to think over what to do, and that makes it all the more important to prepare as much as you can. To paraphrase Massad Ayoob, you never want that "file not found" error to come up when you have a real incident.

The first bike race most people enter is what's called "Category 5" racing. Cat 5 is the beginners, Cat 1 is the near-pro. Cat 5 races average 24 to 26 miles per hour. Think about that: a beginner race is 24 mph. Most fit people can barely ride at 18 mph. The most common thing overheard from new racers: "I had no idea it would be so fast!"

Watching Rob and Mike on TBD, I see the same thing. They assess, orient, present, shoot, reassess, and rehoslter in the time most people can barely draw.

I struggle with how to improve my mental tactical training. My home range is pretty cool (Hague's in Thorofare, NJ, which I highly recommend), but you still can't do a much in the way of tactical training and it's almost impossible to do "shoot/no shoot" drills in a range. I've done a lot of that mental "scenario" stuff with my friends (trying to stick to the plausible), but never at real-life speed.

[tombogan03884]

An important aspect of mental preparation in my opinion, is threat evaluation. Look at your lifestyle and habits and assess what threats you might actually face and then put serious thought into how you would deal with them.
For example, I work second shift, and live more or less in the center of town, I don't have any social night life as I and all my friends are usually working at those hours, I sometimes walk TO work, but that does not take me through "bad" neighborhoods. My "threat assessment therefore includes  dog attacks and home invasion, I've considered my particular circumstances and decided on my course of action in each potential case. I have not bothered considering carjacking as I don't have one, I have not considered riot because if there were one it would most likely occur on the other side of the city center and across a river. If you are driving through a large city every day these things may be VERY high on your threat assessment, which will vary according to each persons situation.
But to honestly assess your habits, and the locations they take you to is a MAJOR first step in mental preparation.