"Should" versus "Could"

[luvmy45]

Maybe the next time you go to the range, maybe you should picture yourself shooting a bad guy and then accidentally shooting a good guy/non-threat. Don't use notorious criminals and politicians you do not like, but maybe some stranger you saw on the street.
[\quote]

That brings up a good point. One that I have read about in a book somewhere, probably on my night stand... oh yeah... Plasters Sniping Bible... anyway...

When shooting targets, what kind of target do we use? Cardboard? USPSA or IDPA silhouets... the funny bad guy full size targets that are at all the ranges, or paper plates and bullseyes? My question, would it be beneficial to use some more life like and realistic targets for practice and training? Something like a picture of a normal person? A real 8x10 photo? Maybe a picture of a loved on on the hostage with a BG holding a gun on them?

Are we condintioning ourselves to shoot at nothing, so to speak, with paper targets that don't represent a real person? Should we be using real photo's and pictures? Plaster say that part of the snipers training should be shooting photo's or real people, so that the mind doesn't "lock" up for lack of a better work when having to actually shoot.

Opinions?? I know I just use IDPA, USPSA and steel for most of my target shooting. others?

Brian

[deamonpi]

Excerpt from the book Hagakure:
Meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily.  Everyday when one's body and mind are at peace, one should meditate upon being ripped apart by arrows, rifles, spears ans swords..."

In that same vein, INHO, you should consider seriously what the long term worst case scenarios could be, and decide on basic courses of action from there.  Such as, is sitting in jail waiting for a trial, regretting killing some mistaken fool trying to get into his (your) house, with wife and daughter living with in laws acceptable?  Is living for the rest of your life with the grief of thinking you should have done more to keep your son from being killed by the crazed drunk guy beating in your door acceptable?  Dealing with the humiliation of having to exit out the back door and run down the alley , to avoid the confrontation?Make your decision based on those scenarios, and assume you cannot fathom the actual feelings.  I think once those thoughts are ingrained it will surface quickly and help make your on the spot 'NEED TO SHOOT?' decision easy.

All this, of course, at the same time you are physically training to defend life and limb.

[tombogan03884]

I use what ever will serve as an aiming point for a given shooting situation, paper plates, cans, or clay pigeons in a sand pit. Bulls eye or silhouettes at the range. The threat that needs to be eliminated with gunfire may not, in my area, probably will not, be a person. More likely a dog, fox or some other type of animal.

[Frisco]

Let me start by saying that I enjoy THIS forum, mostly because I have come to respect Rob, Mike J, and Mike B.  I like their collective common sense attitude toward keeping your butt wired to your head, and all limbs working properly.  Another big reason I like it, is that I don't see a bunch of tactical teddy wannabe high speed low drag operators who wear their 5:11 gear to their cubicles at the insurance office, and are prepared to do battle on the way to the coffee machine with their tacticool folder until they can get to their hidden Krink in their tactical briefcase.

Having been in two real life deadly force encounters while I was still a police officer...I can tell you that you WILL want to KNOW you were right and HAD to shoot.  I am not talking about being able to make it SOUND like shooting was reasonable, and the only option.  I am talking about KNOWING in your mind that it was truly the ONLY way you or your family would survive.

There are several other times in my LE career, and one time in my new career as retired full time dad, where I COULD have used deadly force.  It would have been, according to the letter of the law here in AZ, totally justified.  However, I didn't HAVE to use deadly force...and boy howdy, I thank God Allmighty I didn't take a life in those situations.  The situation was resolved by the subject KNOWING that I was WILLING AND READY to end the encounter with gunfire if neccessary, and they made the choice to live and allow me to go home once again to my family with no blood on my hands. 

A person who shoots someone, even if they don't KILL them, if there is another way that allows you to accomplish your own survival without having to shoot someone, is just crazy.  My gun is my last resort.  If all I had was a hammer, then all my home repairs would start to look like a nail.  The only tool in my toolbox is not my pistol.

I don't want to get preachy.  I will go to ANY length I need to in protecting my family, and one of those lengths is to use restraint when I can.

Be safe all.

[Rob Pincus]

Thanks for the comments, Frisco.... and the real world examples.

-RJP

[Sponsor]

[Timothy]

I'm in a situation where I'm generally unarmed more than armed.  My employer does not allow any firearm on company property so during the week I'm vulnerable and must think outside the box.  (Yes I follow the rules since I'm staff!)

Avoidance is a necessity in my situation because the use of deadly force in this state is an absolute last resort under any circumstances regardless of where or when it may become necessary.  If I discharge a firearm, I will probably be charged before the facts are made clear to the DA or LEO on scene.  It's that simple...

I live well outside any city, would never again reside inside a city proper and spend as little time in them as is absolutely necessary.  Those are parts of my life that will never change.  I choose to distance myself from the shitheap of humanity that has become the urban jungles of this country.

[Frisco]

Thanks for the comments, Frisco.... and the real world examples.

-RJP

Thank you Rob.

I will never discuss details in an open forum for obvious reasons.though it is not something I like to talk about, I would talk with you about it in a private setting.  I had a good post critical incident counselor, and great support from my partner and brother agents.  I was not yet married, and luckily didn't lose a marriage over it.

[Thanos]

I remember one of the scenes from the movie, "Saving Private Ryan", the cartographer could not bring himself to kill the German soldier, who happened to be killing one of his team mates.

When my brother in law left for Iraq and the other left for Afghanistan I told them both the same thing; Everytime a human life is taken in violence the world is incrementally lessened, but never let that stop you from doing what needs to be done.

I don't think that I would be happy about shooting a kid that made a mistake, but it would be a better alternative than living with me making one and having my family hurt.

[Frisco]

When my brother in law left for Iraq and the other left for Afghanistan I told them both the same thing; Everytime a human life is taken in violence the world is incrementally lessened, but never let that stop you from doing what needs to be done.

I don't think that I would be happy about shooting a kid that made a mistake, but it would be a better alternative than living with me making one and having my family hurt.

I don't disagree with you there...as I have often said....I would walk through hell in gasoline soaked underwear to protect my family.

I thank God I didn't have to pull the trigger again.  I would if I had to.  Absolutely.  No question in my mind.  With all that, you have to know that a lot of pain, grief, and sleepless nights come with it.  As you said, I would go through it for my family, and accept it all again.  It just makes it a whole lot easier to sleep at ngiht if you KNOW you did the right thing and had NO other choice.

[D-Man]

As someone who had to take a life in Somolia, I can tell you that it will cause the sleepless nights.  Would I hesitate to take a life to protect my family?  Not one moment, but I would also be the first to try and deescalate a situation or walk away if at all possible.  That being said, knowing that I couldn't deescalate the situation, it would be over as fast as possible.  "Take out the trash" if you will.  It is not something that is fun, it is sad, but sometimes things have to be done.