If you have to fight while holding your child.

[WIshooter]

I'm new to the forum, but have been enjoying downrange radio, best defence and shooting gallary for some time.  I would like to thank Michael Bane, Rob Pincus, Michael Janich and Marshal Halloway for what you guys do.  You have helped to make my family safer and more informend.

I am hoping to gather some information and advice on the problem of how to try to defend your child and yourself from an attack while you are holding them.  I realize that awareness, avoidance, good manners and humility go a long way.  These things may be the most important part of self defence in my opinion, however counting on them exclusively may be deadly.

My specific situation is that I have a 3 year old.  We practice things like how to run as fast as I can while holding her (she has alot of fun with this).  The "hide in the closet drill" in her room and mine, I have tried to reinforce these areas (she has fun with this also).  I have made up a duffle bag that I use as a prop to hold while shooting 1 handed, and deploying and using a pocket knife for practice.  I can shoot in my back yard so this helps. 
Another thing I started doing as a sort of mental exersise: when I'm in a store or public place I ask myself as I move around "what if this person decided to attack".  What would I do.  This has seemed to help with my awareness and becomes more of a second nature thing as the years go by.
I live in Wisconsin so I can not CC a firearm for self defence, but this doesn't seem to change the problem of a close range ambush.  I would still need to fend off an attack and create distance, all of which would have to be accomplished while holding the most important part of my world.
I'm looking for some basic fundimentals I can apply to this kind of problem.  If anybody has good ideas I would love to hear them, and if you have any links to material on this subject I would really appreciate it.  Sorry for the long winded post.

[fightingquaker13]

First welcome aboard! Second, it sucks that you can't CC, Hell Wi. gave us Joe MacCarthy and Vince Lombardi, you'd think y'all could manage a ccw program. Beyond that, gun or no gun, I'd deploy the Monty Python drill (as distinct fom the Mozambique drill) when defending a child. To wit, Run Away, Run Away! Shield the kid and go.Figure that they might miss and your odds of getting to safety and living long enough for the EMTs to stop you from bleeding out are better than your odds of bringing a knife to a gunfight. Even if I were strapped, if it were my kid in a hostage situation, I'd say that everyone else was on their own and make for an exit, and pray that God does look out for children and fools. If thats not an option, I have no advice to give other than to agree to whatever they want while you play for time. Pride is cheap, kids are priceless.
FQ13

[WIshooter]

I absolutley agree about the run away part.  I practice running as fast as I can while holding my daughter, and have found that if I holder diagonal across my chest with both arms I can go fairly fast while not making it hard on her....she loves this and I find myself doing it more than I want sometimes... It is absolutely the first thing to do in my mind.  But if I find somebody charging me out of left field, it might be the second option after don't get tackeled or stabbed. 

[tombogan03884]

 I think I have heard this discussed before, either here or in an interview with Mossad Ayoob.
I don't recall hearing any advice better than run away even in CCW states.
Best I can suggest is use your free hand to block, do anything you can to gain distance and make as much noise as possible to attract attention.
Maybe carry a rock in your pocket, a poor distance weapon is better than none at all.

[twyacht]

Distance will be key, an initial assault on you while your either carrying your child or holding his/her hand is a tremendous threat.

One that even in a non CCW state could be considered a lethal threat easily. Those LEO batons, stun gun, not really in favor of pepper spray while holding a child. wind, fighting etc,...

Hand to hand, all bets are off, kick to the groin, gouging of eyes, etc,... if the assault doesn't stop, your in for the fight of your life and your child's life.

Pocket knife, lethal force of any kind, will have to be considered. Your child will survive being "dropped" so you can defend yourself and your family.

As a father, that would be one of the worst attacks I can imagine. I would run for distance, and if not possible, I would literally go to rage mode, child down, retaliation of a swift and blinding nature with anything at my disposal.

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[Pathfinder]

There is a company called Safe-Pack or something that carries a line of products that provide ballistic protection. Won't help against a blade (just ask a cop about bullet proof vests and knives) but if you can get a decent size backpack on her and yourself, you have some protection.

[bulldog75]

The Best Defense against this type of situation is situational awareness and to recognize the threat and prevent it. You have done a great job by playing situations in your head and figured out the options.

[tombogan03884]

I agree with completely with Bulldog, BUT, as those 4 Cops in Wa. showed, even trained pros can be ambushed. No one is 100% alert 100% of the time.

[bulldog75]

You are right. If someone in your group or family is always on guard then you are better off. One person is on guard at a time and the others rest so as not to stress one person. Even at walmart while you are putting grocerys in the trunk, someone is on alert.

[Overload]

There was a segment on TBD that covered this.  It detailed how to position a person you are trying to defend while shooting.  As far as HOLDING a child, as in in your arm?  The basic advice is the same: shield them with your body.  Put them behind you.  I sometimes run an USPSA stage where we're required to hold a prop while engaging and shooting targets.  This prop is normally a paint can, but it could be anything including a doll.  Learn to shoot one handed, off handed, off balance, and in strange body positions.