Opinions wanted on a "taking a walk" scenario. Trainers please chime in.

[Rob Pincus]

I think avoidance is the key here.

I would also not be at all hesitant to call 9-1-1 in that situation. The taunting was most likely a legal "assault" and the cops showing up would probably be just the kind of thing to tone down most kids if they were harmless. If they weren't harmless, maybe the call will result in a violation of probation conditions or just getting their faces & names on the police radar.

-RJP

[twyacht]

All sound advice, my .02 cents would be perhaps what I see folks walking with. A walking stick, that is originally intended in rural areas to defend yourself against mean stray dogs, or dogs that may get through a fence that is in disrepair.

My neighborhood is full of kids of all ages, and I have a small dog. I don't carry a pistol everytime I walk the dog, but I have a Cold Steel 91 WAS African Walking stick. 37" long, from coldsteel.com,  and just stroll with it. (kinda like a staff but shorter, longer than a cane, but thicker.)

Here's the link:

http://www.coldsteel.com/sticksportal.html

http://www.tacticaloutpost.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=10709

Visual to any group, would still work against a loose mean dog, and perfectly legal.

Cell phone is always a good idea. But when seconds count, the Cops are minutes away. I would hate to fatally shoot a 17 year old "pack" of neighborhood punks acting stupid, but if they approach and get close, and your directly threatened with injury or worse, hit/shoot the biggest one first, preferably hit, but your neighborhood may dictate the threat level.

Walking with a visually potential "skull cracking" implement, generally will make the "kids" just keep going.

Mine was less than $25.00.

World isn't as nice as it used to be.

tw

[fightingquaker13]

I inheireted an old school shillieghle. Irish blackthorn with knobs and and a natural handle where it was cut off the bush. It has zero intimidation factor which sucks as it loses deterent value, but it is as hard as iron wood (lignum vitae), which will actally sink in water. Not what you want to get hit with. I hadn't thought about it for low key SD, but TW just changed my mind. Legal, inconspicous, non-lethal (maybe, see if I care if I actually have to use it) and no one will notice. Maybe an in your face "whup ass stick" would be better as a detterent, but either is better than an ASP and less likely to involve jaill than a Glock. Thanks TW.
FQ13

[D Haught]

Thanks for all the replies, they have definitely given me some things to think about when attempting to be prepared for situations like that. I have not been approached by anybody on my walks with the dog since that night and I'm glad it didn't turn into anything serious that night but I still want to try to run through some possibilities mentally to help be better prepared. There have been several police officers move into the neighborhood in the last year and it seems to have helped calm the kids around here down but you never know. I think avoidance would be my first tactic as well as having 911 ready, but getting an on duty deputy out here can take ten minutes or more depending on proximity and that is certainly long enough for things to degrade should a confrontation be forced. I plan on taking more training to hopefully learn how to think in those situations and handle it well.

These are all helpful things to think about and something I can pass on to my wife to give her an idea of how to respond in similar situations if she goes out for a walk. I am actually planning on getting a bigger dog too, not primarily for protection but I'm sure it doesn't hurt from a deterrent standpoint. She recently joined me in getting her CCH permit but hasn't taken to carrying 24/7 like I have but she does at least keep it with her in the house and in the car when she is out.

[fightingquaker13]

Glad to help confuse you you D. In re. the dog, I personally like pointers, but that's because I chase quail. For a pet/SD dog, there really doesn't seem to be a much better choice than a German shepard or a Belgian malnois (same dog, just smaller). There is a reason most PDs and militaries use them. They are smart, friendly and easily trained. Just do not skimp and go to the pound. Spend some time researching and find a quality breeder. The $500-$1000 you spend on a good pup is the least amount you will ever spend on a dog given food, vet bills etc.. Likewise get it professionally trained for defense. I do this with my bird dogs for hunting. yes its a bit pricey, but Idon't have 500 acres and pens full of quail. I'd rather pay for a job done right than a half assed job I try to do myself. A good pup, good socialization, two or three months at summer camp with a good trainer and you following up religiously on drills....well, you'll have a good friend and an excellent defense for you and the wife.
just my .02
FQ13

[Sponsor]

[D Haught]

The situation with the wife and I is getting more complicated because she is about 5 months pregnant right now and it is making me more emphatic by the day that she learn more about defending herself. Once the baby comes then it is a whole new game with new rules that I will have to try to break down and prepare for.

As for dogs I am wanting a boxer. It was between that and a Rotty but the wife won't go for anything bigger than a boxer right now and I know boxers are great with kids but I dont' have much experience with Rotty's.

[twyacht]

Perhaps just a good OS spray,  congratulations on the upcoming addition to your family.

Yes the "game" will change.

Boxer or Rotty?

With a baby? Get the Boxer.... Rotty's are a working, full time, mega attention dog. With a new baby? Boxer's, especially a puppy, have a better disposition, and would be a good choice. Right up there with a good Lab, or Golden Retriever.

Although I was raised with a Warlock Doberman, mom stayed home, best dog I ever had. When my younger sister was born, (4 years younger than me), that dog saved her life, and there was a bond with that dog, that most cannot compete with.

Also funny to watch "kids/ adults", cross the street when we were walking up the sidewalk.

 

[fightingquaker13]

The situation with the wife and I is getting more complicated because she is about 5 months pregnant right now and it is making me more emphatic by the day that she learn more about defending herself. Once the baby comes then it is a whole new game with new rules that I will have to try to break down and prepare for.

As for dogs I am wanting a boxer. It was between that and a Rotty but the wife won't go for anything bigger than a boxer right now and I know boxers are great with kids but I dont' have much experience with Rotty's.

Let me again emphasize a quality breeder. Particularly with those breeds. Doubly so with Rottweilers. There are way too many backyard breeders turning out trash and while boxers can be good dogs, they can also be neurotic PITAs. Breeding is key becauce a neurotic boxer or Rott is just plain dangerous and you will have a small child at home. Again I really would reccomend you look at the malnois (about 60-75 pounds, ike a mini-shepard).They seem to be smart, steady and the AKC hasn't screwed them up by breeding for confirmation at the expense of brains. However, you're wife's pregnancy throws a wrench into the works (congrats by the way). Puppies and infants are both PITAs in the same way for the same reasons. I would either buy an older trained dog or hold off for a year or two on the beast or you will drive yourself cazy.
Good luck.
FQ13

[ECHOONE]

  There's always a way home,turn around take a longer walk,take another way home,you have a phone,use it,call someone to pick you up,if you feel threatened you better call 911 before you use your gun,you had ample time to, as you suggested,otherwise I'd say, to a jury you'd look pretty quilty here!

[Michael Bane]

+1 with Rob and the rest...avoidance avoidance avoidance, especially in the case as outlined. If I have to engage verbally — which has happened — I like the "verbal jujitsu" concept of sending mixed messages...verbally submissive but more aggressive body language, e.g., moving to a flee or fight position, or, if you're carrying a pocket pistol, placing your strong hand in the pocket and achieving a good draw grip on your gun, then quartering your body with the weak hand outstretched palm forward (and ready to block). At that point I'm being verbally submissive and well as physically submissive with palm-forward weak hand, but I want the aggressors to be worrying whether I'm armed or not. If you're facing real predators who are "interviewing" you, as opposed to over-testosteroned college students (who can indeed be dangerous!), they know what the beginnings of a draw stroke looks like and they're not going to risk the gun.

Better to be gone!

Michael B