A TV documentary on "Who Killed the Electric Car?"

[Tyler Durden]

Since fightingquaker brought up religion and middle east, especially oil in that raghead assassination thread....

Well, it kinda put the bug in my ear about a documentary I watched about two weeks ago.

Now, normally I am very anti-green and very anti-tree hugger, but I do loves me a good conspiracy theory.   

Try this YouTube link to a short video about the documentary:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsJAlrYjGz8

I think fightingquaker and I are of the same mindset...whatever it takes for us to tell the Arabs to _____ off!  is fine in my book.

In the documentary, several very high profile Hollywood actors had leases on these General Motors EV1 (electric vehicle) cars.  To me, it sounded like GM went out of their way to only lease these vehicles out.  They purposely did not sell them outright.  So when the lease was up, they brought in the flatbed trucks and hauled the EV1's away.  The original leasee's of the cars (Hollywood actors who evidently had deep pockets) were NOT allowed to buy the vehicles from GM.

If I recall correctly, the EV1's were eventually loaded on to those big vehiclel transporter trucks and taken to GM's test facility out in the Arizona desert.  And, again IIRC, they were crushed.

Other manutfacturers of electric cars sent their cars to the shredders as well.   

Now, before all you detractors come out of the woodwork and start complaining about the range and weight of lead acid batteries, let me tell ya...there is a guy by the name of Stan Ovshinsky (google his name).  He has about 400 patents, one of which, is the nickel metal hydride battery.  Those are now in laptops, cell phones, and cordless tools.  So, there is just one possibility for a quicker charging, lighter, longer lasting battery.

Another common comment that detractors bring up about electric cars is that it shifts the pollution from the internal combustion engine'd cars to the electric power plants.

Well, I can't really comment on that one way or the other...such comments are fraught with much emotionality and all sorts of statistics get thrown about, in my opinion.  In my opinion...is it better to control pollution from one source (a smokestack at a coal burning power plant, many of which are being outfitted with scrubbers)....versus the tailpipes of thousands and thousands of (improperly maintained??) vehicles.

But like I said...I am not really a tree hugger.  I just like the electric car because it would be like giving the middle finger to the OPEC cartel.

Anywhooo....just to put the bug in ya'll's ears about maybe... possibly...why we don't have more electric cars on the road.  If you get a chance to TiVo or DVR it, I think it is a worthwhile show.

Until then, this video of an electric drag racing car might just be enough to shift your paradigm:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp_jwE0KdOk

[Walkeraviator]

The problem with elctric cars is that they are only greener than your gas burner if you get your electricty from renewable clean resources.  Most of these tree huggers get elctric cars and charge them with coal power, so where is their greeniness now?

I still contend that Prius owners and electric car owners dont give two damns about teh environment, just being cool.  Real environmentalists would by USED diesel cars and make their own bio...

I contend that I do more for the environment through HUnting, Fishing, and contributing to organizations who do the same simply through conservation than the greenie wienies in their egg cars.


With all that said, I want a Tesla Roadster... that thing is freakin fast because electric motors make 100% torque all  the time.  They dont build torque like gas motors... the worlds flattest torque curve

[Pathfinder]

As for what or who killed the electric car, I'd look for collusion between the gas companies and the auto makers. What we have now is electric cars (Prius et al.) powered/recharged by gasoline engines. This way both sides get rich off the consumers - at least until the oil runs out - with the gas companies selling us higher priced gas (pushing $3 a gallon here) and the car companies pushing over-priced "hybrids".

[Tyler Durden]

Yeah, my ultra liberal neighbors across the street have a Prius.  I have only met them once, and that was only because their St. Louis Cardinals baseball tickets got wrongly delivered to my house...because they had donated money to the local NPR radio station.   

I was talking to the husband who seemed pretty cool.  Then his wife pulled into the driveway with her Prius.  Through her yammering on, that's how I learned that they "won" the tickets via NPR.  Putting two and two together...plus her flabbergastedness when someone was so honest to give them their tickets back... I didn't bother to tell her that us Air Force Academy grads are usually an honest lot like that. 

Anywhooo... my point is this...I think people buy Prius's to flaunt their liberalness...in my opinion.

As far as biodiesel goes, yeah, I met a guy at a party who makes his own bio diesel.  It only costs him 62 cents a gallon to do it.  So he is saving at least 2 dollars a gallon versus buying "dino-diesel".

I really don't care all that much about the pollution aspects of electric versus gas car.  Anything that keeps American money out of the shieks hands is fine by me.   

Just doing a quick google search on the documentary, I found this wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F

As far as coal burning power plants go, well, IIRC, there either like 103 or 133 nuke plants here in the US.  Now, if "they" would just iron out the kinks of where to store the spent fuel rods...plus everybody's Not In My Back Yard mentality (NIMBY) about having new nuke plants built we could have "greener" electricity being made to re-charge an electric car's batteries.

[Timothy]

Currently there are about 100 operating commercial nuclear plants in the US.  I've worked at about 32 of them, some of those are now decommissioned and buried somewhere....

We need some sort of repository for spent fuel, when I got out of the business the Feds had promised something, that was 14 years ago and we're no closer today than we were then.  Until that becomes a priority, the politicians will just use nuclear power as a talking point.

Electric cars, hybrids, don't really have an opinion.  I've been buying cars that get 20-30 miles a gallon for twenty years for no other reason that I survived the gas wars in the 70's.  As a factor of inflation, I believe we pay less per gallon today than we did then.

[Sponsor]

[twyacht]

We need some sort of repository for spent fuel, when I got out of the business the Feds had promised something, that was 14 years ago and we're no closer today than we were then.  Until that becomes a priority, the politicians will just use nuclear power as a talking point.

We spent billions on Yucca Mountain Already. Oh, and the Obamic Plague has suspended shipments.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/energy/2009/03/16/lessons-from-the-yucca-mountain-nuclear-waste-storage-debate.html

Lessons from the Yucca Mountain Nuclear Waste Storage Debate
By Kent Garber
Posted March 16, 2009

Over the past decade, more than 7,000 shipments of radioactive nuclear waste have been sent, without any problem, to a government repository in the southwestern United States.

This crucial repository is not the ill-fated Yucca Mountain, the Nevada site that has been steeped in controversy since Congress selected it 22 years ago to store the country's civilian nuclear waste. Yucca Mountain, in fact, has gotten so bogged down in legal and political fights that President Barack Obama, in his new budget, is proposing to eliminate almost all of its funding and explore "alternatives," raising serious questions about how the United States will resolve its nuclear waste problems—and, for that matter, whether the nuclear industry will be able to grow in coming decades.
Click here to find out more!

The functioning repository is located in Carlsbad, N.M., and it may hold some useful answers. Since opening in 1999, it has received more than 60,000 cubic meters of radioactive waste from the country's nuclear defense facilities. Experts say its success offers valuable clues about how Washington can learn from the mistakes made at Yucca Mountain to find a lasting waste solution.

and another one.
http://www.yuccamountain.org/

It is sealed in poured concrete coffins, and placed inside a sealed cavern deep in the mountain. Guarded 24/7.
It's just politicians being well,.....politicians...

[Timothy]

Thanks TW.....problem though, that handles "defense waste" and what does the "radioactive waste" consist of?  It could be contaminated equipment, laundry, highly radioactive tools, compacted equipment, etc.....where do they store the spent fuel rods that power the 100 active reactors or the dozens of reactors that have been decommissioned since the late 80's?

It's a stick wicket for sure.  The commercial facilities are CLEAN compared to the government facilities.  Our government has been known to just dig big holes in the desert and bury entire rail cars and loaders that have been contaminated by one means or another.

The "Defense" industry is what scares the holy hell out of me in regards to nuclear power.  If you fear what they can do with your health care, you should fear their handling of nuclear waste exponentially...  I've seen some films over the years of our nuclear history that still give me nightmares.

[twyacht]

Your right Timothy, it is "defense dept." waste. (I'll let a rocket scientist differentiate the danger and difference between Turkey Point Nuclear Plant waste here in Fl. or the latest tactical nuke waste). It all could be stored at Yucca regardless. Trijicon Night Sights are encapsulated nuclear material from Savannah, Ga plant...

McGuire Nuclear Plant on Lake Norman, had a nice big railway behind the plant, where the spent fuel rods went, I don't know.
It's a political football, just like the electric car.

Where does France store it's nuclear waste? BHO and the tree huggers love Europe and its "earth friendly" model for the world so much,,,,,,, ???So,.....

But here in the US, your damned if you do, and damned if you don't...

We need more refineries AND Nuclear Plants, AND every other viable option pursued, including off shore drilling in our own waters, and the shale oil deposits in the rockies and mid west. Oh,....and freakin' ANWR!!!!!!!! Make the elk happy, and drill.

How's that for some shovel ready jobs....

Tell OPEC (blank you) very much....and lets go. Put the crap in the mountain, and keep going.

[Timothy]

Commercial fuel of Uranium 235 has a half life of approximately 700 million years where as, Plutonium-239 is about 24K years.  I need a physicist to explain why one is worse than the other. We have stockpiles of both of these elements all over the country.  Savannah River was a tritium facility whose breeder reactors were supplying the needed elements for the "triggers" in the bomb cycle.  Been there, don't plan on going back!  Lovely part of the country if you ignore Savannah River.

Plutonium is the most toxic substance known to man and though we've essentially stopped making nuclear weapons, we have enough for tens of thousands of weapons should the need arise.

Can I drift a thread or what?

 

Oh, yea, I agree on the refineries, nuclear plants, ANWR and the rest.  OPEC, though we don't really use their oil, can bite me!

Research the SL-1 Reactor Accident, Idaho Falls, ID circa 1961 for some of our "nuclear history".

[brosometal]

Tyler,

I think people buy Prius's to flaunt their liberalness...in my opinion

Its not so much their liberalness, its their self righteousness.  And its fact not opinion .  As far as environmental impact, there is an article somewhere that compared the "carbon footprint" of the manufacture and use of both a Prius or hybrid of some type and a Hummer.  The Hummer had a smaller "footprint" due to the extensive transportation costs of the components of the hybrid.  Essentially, it rounded the globe before sale.  As far as the fuel cost, you would have to drive a hybrid close to seven years before you recouped the added cost of purchase.  So it boils down to which foreigner do you want with your money to prove that you are better than that wing nut tea bagger across the street that brought our tickets back.

Timothy,
I am not sure where I read/heard it, but there was research that was done with nuclear waste where they bombarded it with gamma rays and were able to reduce the half-life extensively.  Now, my remeberer may be full of excrement but that was the main thrust of what I remember.  KNIBB HIGH FOOTBALL RULES