Eliminating Concealed Carry Permits

[scott.ballard]

I know this makes me "radical", but I really have a hard time when someone puts conditions on my RIGHT to keep and bear arms.  Some one can kill me with a hammer, but no one suggests classes for using them.  It goes along the same lines of if I don't shoot 50 cal, they can ban them because I shoot black rifles.  Oh wait, I shoot shotguns so take the black rifles.  I would own a Harpoon missile if it were legal.

I am on board with you.  No right should be granted by a permit.

Permit implies the granting of permission.  I need no mans permission to keep and bear arms.  I view concealed carry as part of that right.

Before it goes too far.  I am not saying you are wrong if you disagree.  I actually want to hear your opinions and thank you for them.

Stay Safe,

[PegLeg45]

Do you think that gangbangers should be able to LEGALLY carry concealed just because they can (for the time being) pass a background check? I do agree with you that there should be few, if any restrictions. But I also know from my own experience (and I'm sure you do too) that some people just aren't mature enough to comprehend the responsiblity involved. I have no intention of infringing on their RIGHT to self defense. I just want to know that that person has demonstrated that they are competent. Some aren't.

The hole in that idea is that the 'gangbangers' don't worry about permits now.......they would (and do) carry anyway, regardless of laws or permits. Basically the laws and permits only apply to those who would legally abide by them.

Most of the laws on the books now only serve to impede the rights of those who really don't need the laws to start with.

[scott.ballard]

Do you think that gangbangers should be able to LEGALLY carry concealed just because they can (for the time being) pass a background check? I do agree with you that there should be few, if any restrictions. But I also know from my own experience (and I'm sure you do too) that some people just aren't mature enough to comprehend the responsiblity involved. I have no intention of infringing on their RIGHT to self defense. I just want to know that that person has demonstrated that they are competent. Some aren't.

Bangers are going to carry no matter what.  Until they are FID'd into the system or are convicted of a criminal act which would prohibit them from possessing a firearm, are they not entitled to the same rights we are?  21 years old to purchase or possess a handgun. By the time most real gang members are 21 they have been in the system for a long time.  The activities of their youth would prohibit them from possessing a firearm permit or not.  When they are caught with one it will be illegal because of the sins of their past and not an assumption of guilt.

Demonstration of competence would need to be standardized in all 50 states.  My NH permit is mine for the asking and $25.00.  Other states, including some which reciprocate with NH,  require classwork and proficiency demonstrations.  Which system is better?  Is this right and fair for the citizens with the more stringent requirements?

What about non-resident permits?  It is easier for me to obtain a MA non-resident permit than it is for a citizen of that Republik.  Is this a fair and equatable system?

Last point:  The completion of a concealed carry class and the granting of a permit is not a legitimate way to determine competence to own or carry a firearm.  There is too much incongruity in the various programs and very little oversight in some cases.  

Thank you,

[MikeBjerum]

FQ,

It has been a long time since I've felt the need to say this, but Not only do I call BS on your thoughts of not wanting to do away with carry permits, but can you tell us which hole you have your head stuck in!!!

In the words of Uncle Ted "I have a carry permit, and it is called the Second Amendment!"  The same permit is my permit to purchase!

We can't let the anti's and weak-kneed determine how we change our Rights!

I see the chances for total success as slim, but we need to fight to eliminate permits nationwide and return the full meaning of the Second Amendment to this Great Nation!  No more restrictions on carry, magazine capacity, fire control selection, scary black thingies restrictions, no restrictions on ammo, no restrictions on transportation or storage ...

And, no unaccountable agency restrictions on anything firearms ... HEAR THAT OSHA, DOT, DEPT OF ED, HEALTH, ETC. ?

[fightingquaker13]

I hope you feel better now M58. Now that your head is clear, you will hopefully re-read my post and note that I never said that I favored a permit as being a legitimate recquirement. I merely said that they were an acceptable tactical position. Further you will hopefully also note, having now vented, that the 2A is still very much up in the air as far as the courts are concerned. You, Salty and Uncle Ted can quote the 2A till you're blue in face, but its words on a page until a legislature or the Court implements it. We are seeing that happen. 34 states (at my last recollection) have CCW. The 2A was applied to the feds in Heller, and God Willing and the creek don't rise, McDonnald will at least partially incorporate it. However M58, that's only halfway there. That cements the keep part. What the hell does bear mean? Bear where? (Sorry I will stop before getting Seussian ). Does it cover cars? Open carry? Concealed carry? Where can you carry? What about booze or Jesus being the primary purpose of the building? Do you still have that right? The thing is, I am merely suggesting that we take things one step at a time, consolidate our positions, and then move forward. We are engaged in trench warfare, not a Blitzkrieg.
Peace
FQ13

[Sponsor]

[TAB]

Siteing ted in a debate about CCW makes you look foolish.  he does not have a CCW, he had a buddy swear him in as a LEO so he could carry in all 50 states.  At best he is a hypocirt. 

[brosometal]

That is what I was trying to ask.

My error.

Do we, as gun owners and some with CCW permits, ever see a point in the near future, say 5 years, where it may be possible to abolish CCW permits in their entirety?

Thanks,

I'm a  bit late to the dance, but the word I would use in obsolescence. 

FQ took some fire, but he's essentially right.  What the 2A was written for and how it's enforced are two separate ships at sea that we're trying to get together in a safe harbor. 

In theory, the 2A would allow you to keep and bear whatever you wish (yes TAB even nukes).  There is no provision for size, rate of fire or fallout (of any kind).  The reality is that we are slowly peeling back artificial restrictions. 

I would hope that my CCW would be become like the silly laws you hear about like not being able to look at a moose from an aircraft in AK.  I will not surrender a CCW like a blind 90 year old surrenders his DL, but more like the buggy whip gathering dust in the barn as the horseless carriage brings home the groceries.

[MikeBjerum]

No time to go in depth at this point except -

FQ - I read your post several times, and in my simple mind you are in support of restrictions like permits.

TAB - Call me silly, but I agree with Ted on this one.  Hypocrite for getting sworn in ... Hey, he just got his national permit to carry!  Hell ... I was offered a status as a part-timer in an area town, and it might happen.  One of the side benefits - Carry anywhere in the state and eventually nationwide (Just like blood brother Ted  ).  Carry is not what will make the decision, but if I chose to serve I won't complain about the benefit!

It is the "bend with the wind" attitude that you two are stating here that has lost us a lot of ground and lead to us letting the legislature and courts take our Rights away from us.

Old fashioned and dust covered ... Maybe the British aren't marching down our streets today, and no one has in almost 200 years, but what if they do? What if the United Nations decides they want more control of the United States? What if ...  ?  We prepare to protect ourselves at home, in stores, at bars and restaurants, in parks, etc., why do we all of a sudden not worry about other nations or organizations?

Be back latter for more fun  ...  Have a wonder Donder evening boys 

[fightingquaker13]

M58
Chill man. Me, I want a gun in my hand. If I have to jump through a hoop or two to get it there, fine. As Jefferson said "In matters of fashion (here read expediency) flow with the river. In matters of principle, stand like a rock".  The way I see it, the matter of principle is having the gun. The matter of fashion is whether I have to waste a Saturday and pay $85. I think you are blinded by ideology. You see the forest just fine (own and carry what you want as long as you aren't a criminal). The trouble is, there are all these pesky trees we have to negoitiate. Its like the old Spiritual (and Civil Rights Anthem) Climbing Jacobs Ladder". "Every rung, higher and higher". My advice M58 is this. Less haste, more speed. (And before anybody accuses me of being prentious), that quote comes from Sgt. Major Fox US Army. Crazy as hell (think Biloxi Blues) but the breath of fresh air/kick in the ass every ROTC cadet needs.
FQ13 who will even have The Boss testify for me. You may not buy my argument, but listen to the link. You will be a poorer man if you don't. Its an accoustic, thrash, blues, Gospel, country, brass jamn that Louie Armstrong would have been proud  of. I may offend you politically, but I like to think that when it comes to music, I never dissapoint.
PS I didn't include the link. Dooh!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usYzTPFlQoA

[tombogan03884]

First rule of Leadership is to never give an order you can't enforce .
It is totally useless to prohibit the GOOD PEOPLE  from making or owning anything they can buy or dream up.
The bad guys already have.