AGREE? SHERIFF JOE: 'NO TOURISM TO MEXICO'

[tombogan03884]

And we saw how well those worked out. You can't be a cop and a soldier at the same time. Ywo ROE's and (hopefully) never the twain shall meet, in either direction). Its why I dislike the militrization of police tac teams. Hostage rescue and sniper support, yes. Routine felony warrants, no.
Still, if done right, the guard can help. W. did it wrong, just sending the guard to the border in '06. They were in the way. Now, if you did it right, drones, helos, communications, radar units, maintainence, field kitchens etc. You could give the BP guys resources they can only dream of and take the slack off their support people and let them take the field.
FQ13
FQ13

     Unequivocal agreement ?   

[billt]

Its why I dislike the militarization of police tactical teams. Hostage rescue and sniper support, yes. Routine felony warrants, no.  FQ13

I tend to agree. Police have proven to abuse these type of "teams", and the law suits prove it. They never existed 40 years ago. Certainly not to the extent they do today. Now a days, if a city is incorporated it seems they "need" a SWAT team, along of course, with taxpayer money to fund it. That is ridiculous. And with it comes all of the armored personnel carriers, weapons, ninja suits, Kevlar helmets, repelling gear, and everything else they can possibly buy to portray themselves as John J. Rambo.

It's gone to far, as power always seems to, and it's abuse is well documented. The Chicago Police Dept. did enough damage in short sleeves with night sticks in Grant Park, during the Democratic National Convention 42 years ago. During the Rodney King Riots the L.A.P.D. was nowhere to be found, SWAT teams and all. And a few years later their so called "SWAT Team" was held off by 2 guys with AK's for over 2 1/2 hours.

 In Sacramento, California in 1991 the tactics, (some refered to it as antics), of their SWAT team got 3 civilians killed in the now infamous Good Guys Electronics store shootout. These "teams" have shown to be minimally effective in relation to the trouble, death, carnage, wrongful entries, and millions of dollars of lawsuits they've caused, and the police have subsequently lost, as a direct result of a militarized police dept.

Personally, I think the peoples image of police departments has been going downhill ever since cops quit walking the beat. Law enforcement has become far too impersonal. That, along with replacing it's personality with weapons, military garb, and attitude, will end up being it's Waterloo.  Bill T.

[tombogan03884]

ROFL
Posted by: billt
It's gone to far, as power always seems to, and it's abuse is well documented. The Chicago Police Dept. did enough damage in short sleeves with night sticks in Grant Park, during the Democratic National Convention 42 years ago. During the Rodney King Riots the L.A.P.D. was nowhere to be found, SWAT teams and all. And a few years later their so called "SWAT Team" was held off by 2 guys with AK's for over 2 1/2 hours.

 In Sacramento, California in 1991 the tactics, (some refered to it as antics), of their SWAT team got 3 civilians killed in the now infamous Good Guys Electronics store shootout. These "teams" have shown to be minimally effective in relation to the trouble, death, carnage, wrongful entries, and millions of dollars of lawsuits they've caused, and the police have subsequently lost, as a direct result of a militarized police dept.

Every single state has had one or more incidents where these guys have hit the wrong house, often as in NH's case, murdering a law abiding citizen in the process.
At least the Keystone Kops didn't have Full Auto   

[Pathfinder]

It's gone to far, as power always seems to, and it's abuse is well documented. The Chicago Police Dept. did enough damage in short sleeves with night sticks in Grant Park, during the Democratic National Convention 42 years ago. During the Rodney King Riots the L.A.P.D. was nowhere to be found, SWAT teams and all. And a few years later their so called "SWAT Team" was held off by 2 guys with AK's for over 2 1/2 hours.

To be accurate, it was patrolmen without anything other than 9mm sidearms and shotguns who were held off - but who contained the BGs at the same time.

When the SWAT team showed up, their truck was AWOl, so they hit a local sporting good store and cleaned him out of ARs and 5.56 ammo. Then they stopped the second BG - the first had already killed himself at that point.

Lesson learned, sort of. Even our County Sheriff deputies all have full-auto M-16s int he trunk now - even the Captains. Our SWAT Team is regional, covers 2 counties in 2 states, and 3 municipal PDs as well as the 2 County SO.

Personally, I think the peoples image of police departments has been going downhill ever since cops quit walking the beat. Law enforcement has become far too impersonal. That, along with replacing it's personality with weapons, military garb, and attitude, will end up being it's Waterloo.  Bill T.

+1000 on that one, Bill

[Timothy]

We had one of our local "Fifes" stop a speeder in front of my home.  If he is any reflection on our local PD, this little burg is in trouble.  One of the most out of shape little trolls I've seen in a while.  

I seriously doubt we have any kind of SWAT team here, maybe in Worcester but that's 10 miles southwest of here.  I'm my own protection and always have been.  SWAT may serve a purpose, just not one I'm aware of or have seen any need for where I've lived.  As I've said before, I WILL NOT live near a metro area in this country ever again so I've no need for a paramilitary organization.

Ten miles is too close for me.

[Sponsor]

[billt]

The problem with "SWAT" is two fold. First is the question of the necessity of their very existence in many suburban environments. The second is reason for deployment. I'm in no way saying they are useless, but rather are they needed, and if so what for? Some wealthy suburbs get away with it because they have a major infusion of tax dollars to spend, (waste would be a better choice of words), along with the attitude of "needing" the latest and greatest in law enforcement. This in itself leads to an over abundance of these guys.

Many are deployed based on the notion they need to use them for something if the bank isn't being held up by Neil McCauley and his crew. So they wind up sending these guys out to execute simple arrest warrants for local drug pushers, pimps, and the like. This is usually where information gets crossed up, and the wrong house gets torpedoed in the process, and big lawsuits are more often than not, the biggest result. Especially if Hondo Harrelson winds up taking out an innocent civilian who answers the door thinking it's Dominoes with his order of cheese sticks. In short much of the time these guys are simply overkill, and all they wind up doing is ratcheting up the volume in what would have been a low risk take down, had they stayed back at the station and read the latest issue of S.O.F.    Bill T.

[tombogan03884]

Our Local Swat team here is run by the Sheriff, but it is called the "Special Operations Team" They do the stand offs and felon arrest stuff, but they do far more Rescue type specialized stuff Water, search and recovery mostly.

[garand4life]

But doesn't this only apply if the military is being used to police our own citizens? Wouldn't this be considered an invading force? Therefore Posse Comitatus wouldn't apply.

That was my thought as well, since they are not policing American Citizens. And isn't it part of the militaries duty to protect the US from foreign "invaders"?

[fightingquaker13]

That was my thought as well, since they are not policing American Citizens. And isn't it part of the militaries duty to protect the US from foreign "invaders"?

Technically, you could probably justify it, but man it ups the ante. Also understand that there will be a body count, thats just soldiers doing what they are trained to do. Neither are necessarily bad things, just not to be casually discounted either. As I posted earlier, the Guard could bring in drones, helos, radar, communications, sattelites etc, that would make the Border Patrol ten times more effective without raising those issues. Militarizing the border? Maybe not a bad idea, but there has to be broad support for it or a bunch of grunts will get hung out to dry.Remember Ramos and Campeon.
FQ13

[garand4life]

I have a buddy thats about to come back from Iraq who basically is doing on the Iraq/Syria border what we would want here. Observing, detaining, and processing those that cross the border outside of sanctioned checkpoints. And judging by what he's told me about the process they use I don't see why it wouldn't work well here as a supplement to CBP agents. Especially considering, like you said, the ability to employ drones to cover such vast areas with thermographics.