Videos of West Memphis cop killings:

[ms1212]

So sad these police officers were killed in the line of duty. The Arkansas Game and Fish Commission Wildlife Officer, Michael Neal, put his life on the line and saved many lives. Within the last few week West Memphis approved the buying of M-4's for their police. One of my friends on our SWAT team trained with Brandon Paudert(the officer in the first traffic stop)in Little Rock. Again there are no "routine" traffic stops. The 16 year old killer looked more like 13. My prayers are with all affected.

Videos of West Memphis cop killings:

http://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/2089972-Videos-of-West-Memphis-cop-killings-surface/

[fightingquaker13]

Three good lessons
1) There is no such thing as a kid with a gun, there is only a gun.
2) Control your environment. To all those who bitch about the cops wanting your legal CCW at a traffic stop, this is why. Its no big deal. Give them the gun, slowly and how they want it, then talk the thing through.
3) Any one who wants to be the anti-gov zorro, this is how it ends, thirty of them and two of you. Do the math. It was over before it began. The only variable was the body count.
FQ13

[GUNS-R-US]

Three good lessons
1) There is no such thing as a kid with a gun, there is only a gun.
2) Control your environment. To all those who bitch about the cops wanting your legal CCW at a traffic stop, this is why. Its no big deal. Give them the gun, slowly and how they want it, then talk the thing through.
3) Any one who wants to be the anti-gov zorro, this is how it ends, thirty of them and two of you. Do the math. It was over before it began. The only variable was the body count.
FQ13

FQ that part is a bunch of bull. My gun is far more safe in my holster than some cop playing with it! I seriously doubt those cops asked if their were any AK's in the van and whether it would have done any good if they had. Someone want's to be the anit-gov zorro, they aint going to tell the cop they got it in the first place. Second Their going to do what they want to do. If that means shooting cops, their going to shoot cops. Can't stop that, only thing you can do it be better than they are! Unfortunately for those two Arkansas troopers they weren't. The BG's got the drop on them and it cost them their lives. That crap is like the Illinois State Trooper on Tom Gresham show the other day who said he was OK with CCW but he didn't want legal CCW holders to be able to carry anything big enough to penetrate his vest. "LEGAL CCW HOLDERS" The legal CCW's aren't the one's to worry about it's the illegal ones! I guess that means he was okay with gang bangers carrying stuff big enough to penetrate his vest! About 10% of the general population are criminals. Less than 1% of those who are cops, CCW holders, military and people like them, who have gone though everything to get where they are, are going to be criminals. Seriously you really don't have to worry much about the legal ones!

[fightingquaker13]

FQ that part is a bunch of bull. My gun is far more safe in my holster than some cop playing with it! I seriously doubt those cops asked if their were any AK's in the van and whether it would have done any good if they had. Someone want's to be the anit-gov zorro, they aint going to tell the cop they got it in the first place. Second Their going to do what they want to do. If that means shooting cops, their going to shoot cops. Can't stop that, only thing you can do it be better than they are! Unfortunately for those two Arkansas troopers they weren't. The BG's got the drop on them and it cost them their lives. That crap is like the Illinois State Trooper on Tom Gresham show the other day who said he was OK with CCW but he didn't want legal CCW holders to be able to carry anything big enough to penetrate his vest. "LEGAL CCW HOLDERS" The legal CCW's aren't the one's to worry about it's the illegal ones! I guess that means he was okay with gang bangers carrying stuff big enough to penetrate his vest! About 10% of the general population are criminals. Less than 1% of those who are cops, CCW holders, military and people like them, who have gone though everything to get where they are, are going to be criminals. Seriously you really don't have to worry much about the legal ones!

I'm not arguing Guns. I'm just saying this. If I'm the cop on the scene, I want to know if there guns in your possesion. If so, I want them out of your hands and in plain view. After that, I will write you your speeding ticket or whatever and send you on your way. No infringement on the 2A. Just being aware of guns on the scene. Personally, if the cops had asked both BGs to step out, this whole thing would not have come to pass, and no one's rights would have been violated.
FQ13

[GUNS-R-US]

I'm not arguing Guns. I'm just saying this. If I'm the cop on the scene, I want to know if there guns in your possesion. If so, I want them out of your hands and in plain view. After that, I will write you your speeding ticket or whatever and send you on your way. No infringement on the 2A. Just being aware of guns on the scene. Personally, if the cops had asked both BGs to step out, this whole thing would not have come to pass, and no one's rights would have been violated.
FQ13

And I disagree with that to many cops don't know how to handle firearms and I don't want them screwing around with mine!

[Sponsor]

[ericire12]

If I'm the cop on the scene Govt, I want to know if there guns in your possesion. If so, I want them out of your hands and in plain view. After that, I will write you your speeding ticket or whatever and send you on your way. No infringement on the 2A. Just being aware of guns on the scene.
FQ13

Re-read it now and see how it sounds to ya. You are just applying liberal gun control logic to a traffic stop. There is no reason what so ever for a cop to confiscate a law abiding citizen's gun.

If it is dangerous during the duration of a traffic stop, then by that same flawed logic it is equally dangerous during all times of concealed carry.... therefore all concealed carry is a danger to society and to law enforcement.

Quaker, you are wrong.

[fightingquaker13]

Re-read it now and see how it sounds to ya. You are just applying liberal gun control logic to a traffic stop. There is no reason what so ever for a cop to confiscate a law abiding citizen's gun.

If it is dangerous during the duration of a traffic stop, then by that same flawed logic it is equally dangerous during all times of concealed carry.... therefore all concealed carry is a danger to society and to law enforcement.

Quaker, you are wrong.

I'm as skepticall of "the man" at least, as the next guy. But as a cop, do you want a gun at your back? I'm not saying cuff the guy and confiscate the weapon. Just "place the pistol on the seat and come to the back of the car. You owe the Governor $99.95 for speeding and have a nice night". How have your rights been violated? Seriously man, there is a common sense middle ground where you don't lose possesion of your weapon and the cop doesn't have to worry about getting capped. It can be done politely and with no Con Law issues.
FQ13

[GUNS-R-US]

I'm as skepticall of "the man" at least, as the next guy. But as a cop, do you want a gun at your back? I'm not saying cuff the guy and confiscate the weapon. Just "place the pistol on the seat and come to the back of the car. You owe the Governor $99.95 for speeding and have a nice night". How have your rights been violated? Seriously man, there is a common sense middle ground where you don't lose possesion of your weapon and the cop doesn't have to worry about getting capped. It can be done politely and with no Con Law issues.
FQ13

FQ any time a gun is removed from a holster it is possible for the trigger to be pull how ever inadvertently. If it stays in the holster you can not pull the trigger! It will not go bang accidentally! If your in a state where you have to notify the LEO then do so but it they are smart the will leave it where it is!! "keep your hands where I can see them and don't make any sudden move toward your gun and we'll all be fine!"

[deepwater]

I'm not arguing Guns. I'm just saying this. If I'm the cop on the scene, I want to know if there guns in your possesion. If so, I want them out of your hands and in plain view. After that, I will write you your speeding ticket or whatever and send you on your way. No infringement on the 2A. Just being aware of guns on the scene. Personally, if the cops had asked both BGs to step out, this whole thing would not have come to pass, and no one's rights would have been violated.
FQ13

believe me, if they're going to shoot you, they aren't going to wait.... sure officer, I'll just pull this illegal gun out of my belt so I can't shoot you. what makes you think that someone that intends to kill the officer will A) admit to having the gun B) hand the gun over C) wait long enough for the officer to even ask before they open fire? gee, since you were so courteous and professional I'll just hand it to you while you handcuff me.

DUH!

as said earlier, it's safer in it's happy place than in the hands of someone that is not familiar with the gun.
Deepwater

[ratcatcher55]

I would say this was much more of a loss of focus by the officers. They forgot all about the creep in the van and let all the attention on the driver. 

I've been stopped with 3 other armed folks by a KY State trooper coming back from a training class.  I handed him my CCW and license. He asked if there was any other any other weapons on folks and every one said yes.  His reply was just keep your hands in plain sight and we'll all be happy. No threats , no attempt to disarm anyone. Very proffesional.  He wrote me a warning and we went down the road. I have also been with Phiily cops who would have called out the SWAT team if they had four armed men in front of them.  The difference was the trooper was prepared and those yahoos were not. 

I tend to think dis-arming or securing the weapon adds risk if the person is wanted for a traffic only violation. Folks stuff pistols in pockets and flopping loose between seats. It surprising more of those idiots don't shoot themselves.

Most cops are not gun folks and their gunhandling shows it. Hand them a PPK or Tomcat and it would 50/50 if they could unload it safely.

Best use of a pickup truck I've seen in a while.