Videos of West Memphis cop killings:

[fightingquaker13]

believe me, if they're going to shoot you, they aren't going to wait.... sure officer, I'll just pull this illegal gun out of my belt so I can't shoot you. what makes you think that someone that intends to kill the officer will A) admit to having the gun B) hand the gun over C) wait long enough for the officer to even ask before they open fire? gee, since you were so courteous and professional I'll just hand it to you while you handcuff me.

DUH!

as said earlier, it's safer in it's happy place than in the hands of someone that is not familiar with the gun.
Deepwater

Look
I did 4 years of ROTC (got offered a buyout, took it, thus didn't serve, so not a vet or pretending to be). Still, though, our training was obviously very different from cops one constant was, either the weapon is in plain sight, on the ground, or in your control or its a threat. That's just the way we were trained and even though there are good reasons (maybe even compelling ones) not to fall back on it, its still kind of the way I'm wired. Discuss amongst yourselves.
FQ13

[m25operator]

There are some good lessons and discussions here, I won't armchair for a second, I was not there, and I hate what happened, as to gunsrus, I have been a range officer too long, to disagree about LE gunhandling, some are great, most are not, the less gunhandling done, the safer all will be, got stopped and the LE saw my guncases, he inspected them and was ok until he came to my Contender pistol, " how do you open this action?" I explained it to him, but he was having great difficulty, I offered to open it for him, and in his command voice said NO, I knew it was empty but let him struggle through it. When carrying I always let the LE know, and follow his or her commands to the letter. Most just say, keep it there and keep your hands where I can see them. Of course this is exactly what I do. Allowing the kid to stay in the van, of course now hind sight is 20/20, that could have saved the day for the 2 LE's, but who knows what crimes they had in mind once the ticket was written. + 1,000,000 on the game warden disabling the van, and then getting a better position, looked like his windshield was toast, and I don't know if from within or from without, last part with all the LE's approaching the van, with no cover, well that is like looking for the wounded Lion, better man than I am Gunga Din.

I feel at least a hundred LE's are watching this and LEARNING, to bad 2 guys paid the price. Rip, and God Bless the Families.

[philw]

a very tragic incident 

I can see how it would  Help LEO's  in training however why do the media feel they have the need to show the video's when stuff like that happens

it would not help the families and friends at all

[fightingquaker13]

a very tragic incident 

I can see how it would  Help LEO's  in training however why do the media feel they have the need to show the video's when stuff like that happens

it would not help the families and friends at all

It wasn't the media that wanted them shown, it was the cops. They didn't want the headline to be "16 year Old Gunned Down in his Father's Arms by 400 Cops in a Wallmart Parking Lot". LEOs (correctly in my view), released this to answer questions before they were asked.
FQ13

[GUNS-R-US]

a very tragic incident  

I can see how it would  Help LEO's  in training however why do the media feel they have the need to show the video's when stuff like that happens

it would not help the families and friends at all

It is public information in the US, and I think it should be available as it doesn't show the LEO's being actually shot. But more important I think its important for people to see. If they only had it in the LEO academy's not enough people will get to see it, and their is something for everyone to learn from this!

[Sponsor]

[Solus]

It is public information in the US, and I think it should be available as it doesn't show the LEO's being actually shot. But more important I think its important for people to see. If they only had it in the LEO academy's not enough people will get to see it, and their is something for everyone to learn from this!

The Frontsight training facility used a similar video in one of it's plugs for training that may have prevented the officers death and caught a lot of flak for using it.

[ratcatcher55]

It wasn't the media that wanted them shown, it was the cops. They didn't want the headline to be "16 year Old Gunned Down in his Father's Arms by 400 Cops in a Wallmart Parking Lot". LEOs (correctly in my view), released this to answer questions before they were asked.
FQ13

I think you hit it on the head. 

I think these videos can be a very powerful training tool for other officers and students of self defense.  You can see how things develop before the assault.

Tom Givens use to say  read the crime page in your local newspaper. Review how the crime could have been avoided. Think about how you as the victim could have responded differently. Build a mental library of detection and solutions to battles you have not had to fight.

[bulldog75]

It is easy to sit and review the tape and see where the mistakes were made, but when you are in the middle of those situations it is hard to watch both subjects. Magicians can fool and distract you when you are watching them so these officers were watching what they thought was the threat, the father. If a officer was going swat on them and pulled them out of the vehicle and held them at gun point he was a over aggressive, and a complaint would have followed. Now that they did not do that people will sit and say they were lazy and did not know their job and it was their fault that they did not watch the kid. So they are in a no win situation. Be overly aggressive and be a ass, or be nice and get railroaded. So as a police officer that has survived a situation do not expect Barney Fife or Andy from me. You get Mr. Buford Pusser and I make no appoligies for my attitude or telling someone to hand me their firearm when I stop a CCW. I go home after my shift. You may be a nice person, but I only trust god and Smith and Wesson to get me home at the end of my shift.

[twyacht]

As fast as that "kid" came out on the passenger side with the AK, there is no choice. This is a life determining decision.

PERIOD.

All the "what should happen" scenarios go by the wayside. as ratcatcher pointed out, hell of a good ram by the pick up, they did not surrender, and were dangerous to the nth degree.

They brought it to that level, and the LEO's responded, as trained, to end it.

God Bless that Officer and his family. It's a brutal job, and can change within the blink of an eye.

[GUNS-R-US]

It is easy to sit and review the tape and see where the mistakes were made, but when you are in the middle of those situations it is hard to watch both subjects. Magicians can fool and distract you when you are watching them so these officers were watching what they thought was the threat, the father. If a officer was going swat on them and pulled them out of the vehicle and held them at gun point he was a over aggressive, and a complaint would have followed. Now that they did not do that people will sit and say they were lazy and did not know their job and it was their fault that they did not watch the kid. So they are in a no win situation. Be overly aggressive and be a ass, or be nice and get railroaded. So as a police officer that has survived a situation do not expect Barney Fife or Andy from me. You get Mr. Buford Pusser and I make no appoligies for my attitude or telling someone to hand me their firearm when I stop a CCW. I go home after my shift. You may be a nice person, but I only trust god and Smith and Wesson to get me home at the end of my shift.

I really doubt that is going to help you get home at the end of your shift. It's the criminal that will lie to you when you ask if their are weapons in the car and say no to you that will kill you when your back is turned.  You can ask they can lie and you can't hall every traffic stop out of the car and frisk them without good cause. The person with a valid CCW whether they tell you their armed or not is not generally a treat, and disarming them is not only unnecessary, but potentially unsafe. I think the better option is to know their armed and tell them to keep their hand way from the firearm. I wish you luck Bulldog I hope you always make it home at the end of your shift and I hope you'll do it without violating the peoples rights that you have sworn to protect, including their right to be Armed!