Author Topic: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"  (Read 31910 times)

PegLeg45

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2010, 11:15:56 AM »
Idiot's change our world in many ways.  Bill T.

The rest of what you said is dead on too, Bill, but that statement is definitely an X-ring hit at a 1000 yds, IMHO.
"I expect perdition, I always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damned disease." ~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo

For the Patriots of this country, the Constitution is second only to the Bible for most. For those who love this country, but do not share my personal beliefs, it is their Bible. To them nothing comes before the Constitution of these United States of America. For this we are all labeled potential terrorists. ~ Dean Garrison

"When it comes to the enemy, just because they ain't pullin' a trigger, doesn't mean they ain't totin' ammo for those that are."~PegLeg

tombogan03884

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2010, 11:20:39 AM »
Accidental discharges have been plaguing the firearms industry since the invention of gunpowder. When they happen, they are much like any other mistake, in that the first thing is to place blame on something or someone other than who was behind the trigger, or handling the firearm when it happened. Remington was a easy target here because it was fairly easy for trial lawyers to make them, along with their product look bad. They were able to "prove", at least convincingly enough for a jury to buy it, the product they produced, (The Walker Fire Control System), was defective. At least defective enough that a big cash payout would make it easier to accept. It has been argued both ways for years, usually with the same outcome. Some will never own a Remington 700 because of it, while others dismiss it as operator error. Most of the top gun manufacturers like Ruger and Browning have been sued at one time or another because of accidental discharges, but none so profoundly as the Remington 700 trigger case.

Some years back Ruger paid out a large settlement to an individual who was playing "Quick Draw McGraw" in front of a mirror with a Ruger Blackhawk while it was loaded. You can guess what happened. He ended up in a wheel chair which was probably the best place for him at that point. It was no fault of the firearm, or it's design. But Ruger elected to settle out of court because if they had lost the suit it could have brought an avalanche of suits by other idiot's seeking a fast buck. That isn't fair, but it is the way our legal system operates. Sometimes it becomes necessary to award idiot's for being idiot's to prevent expensive legal action by even more idiot's in a world that is overly infested with lawyers. For what it is worth, that settlement was the reason for Ruger to go with the large "WARNING" roll marks on their barrels urging the owner to, "Read the instruction manual avaliable FREE from Sturm Ruger & Co." Idiot's change our world in many ways.  Bill T.


Another thing to bear in mind, this was a Civil, not criminal trial.
This sets a much lower standard of proof that allows even a jerk like John Edwards to win $800 million law suits.

billt

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2010, 11:30:49 AM »
Another thing to bear in mind, this was a Civil, not criminal trial.
This sets a much lower standard of proof that allows even a jerk like John Edwards to win $800 million law suits.

The problem is they don't even have to win them in many cases. Often just the threat of losing is enough to award someone with money they in no way deserve. This countries legal system is in dire need of repair. Shakespeare was on to something.  Bill T.

tombogan03884

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2010, 11:34:36 AM »
Like the Jesse Jackson shake down.
It's cheaper in the long run to just pay them to go away than it would cost in bad PR, and legal fee's.

nealtome

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2010, 03:27:07 PM »
have any other bolt actions rifles such as ruger, savage or winchester ever been reported with problems
i am not talking lawsuits i am asking about problems with their bolt actions

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #45 on: Today at 08:09:58 AM »

billt

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2010, 05:09:39 PM »
i am not talking lawsuits i am asking about problems with their bolt actions

Nothing out of the norm. Every manufacturer lets a bad one get out every now and then. Most is just minor stuff. Last year I bought a Savage 10 FP in .308 and I had to take it to a gunsmith and have all of the scope base mounting holes re tapped. Savage doesn't use plug screws and a lot of over spray from whatever they coat the barrel and action with got into the threads. A minor inconvenience, but I have bolt guns from all of the major manufacturers and have never had to send a rifle back. Most manufacturers have a good Q. C. dept, and anything really bad usually gets flagged before they get out the door. Recalls destroy profits faster than Obama.  Bill T.

kmitch200

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2010, 08:39:25 PM »
First time poster and long time owner of the model 700, never had a problem with it.
I saw the show on TV last night and have been interested in finding out as much as I can about this issue.
From what I saw in the program they showed videos of the police and army having misfires with their 700's.   I think that's cause for concern.  In the army video the 700 fired when the soldier touched the bolt.  In another video the gun went off when the safety was moved to fire.  I would not have believed it.
Also the inventor of the 700 called Remington "stupid".
Just trying to get to the bottom of this.
Panzer

First of all WELCOME!
To test your 700, make sure it's unloaded.
When you close the bolt, put the safety on - if you can operated the bolt you don't have the "bolt block" feature on your gun and it is not subject to the "Safety Modification Program" which expires Dec of 2010.  You should not have any problems at all with your rifle.

To further test the rifle's safety, do as M25 said, cock it, (close the bolt), put the safety on and pull the trigger hard. Flip the safety off, if no sear release, bump the butt of the gun on some padding FIRMLY. Slam the bolt closed several times. You can do the same test with the safety left on and after bumping the butt, slamming the bolt and pulling the trigger, flip the safety to the off position. 
If the sear hasn't released, I would and do feel just fine about using the rifle. None of my 700s has ever had an issue though I do know of one guy that did buy an old one - with the bolt block - and his daughter had the rifle fire when the safety was pushed off. He sent it in and Rem did the fix for $20.
That is the only 700 I have ever heard of personally having an issue.

If you have the cash get a Jewell trigger. 
WARNING - my Jewell trigger has ABSOLUTELY SPOILED ME!
Every trigger in comparison feels like crap, even the ones I thought were really, really sweet before. I'll bet the ones from Shilen feel just as good but I don't have any experience with them.  My Jewell is set at 1 pound and passes all of the above tests.

Picking a nit - "In the army video the 700 fired when the soldier touched the bolt. CNBC had only vids of guys in cammie jammies from Border Patrol and Portland Maine police - not military.
Not that it really makes any difference.
Portland, Maine per CNBC, said they 'didn't get any satisfaction from Remington'.
Rem states that they never heard about it and never got to examine the rifles. 7th video on the 700tv site.  Another 'he said, she said'.
 
You can say lots of bad things about pedophiles; but at least they drive slowly past schools.

MikeBjerum

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #47 on: October 26, 2010, 11:48:45 PM »
With travel I missed this one, and since it will be on again this Thursday evening I will reserve rants until watching it ...

Oh what the hell ... This is oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooold news!!!  Just like Ruger and their single actions, Remington has been doing their best to fix this, and the only guns with issues out here belong to owners that didn't do their work.

If you are concerned you might have one of the guns with an issue - Put the unloaded rifle on your kitchen table under a good light, call Remington, and talk to customer service.  They won't lead you astray!

Rant off till I see the show.
If I appear taller than other men it is because I am standing on the shoulders of others.

kmitch200

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2010, 12:23:03 AM »
With travel I missed this one, and since it will be on again this Thursday evening I will reserve rants until watching it ...
Rant off till I see the show.

You won't like it and you won't be surprised at the CNBC hatchet job.
The same gunsmith the show has saying that the design isn't safe, Remington has video of him on the stand testifyiing that he was unable to reproduce the malfunction.
Also the lady shot in the head from another room? Remington shows the police report that states she was shot IN THE SAME ROOM while her husband was showing the rifle to a 14 yr old. When the kid handed it back to the husband it fired.  ::)
You can say lots of bad things about pedophiles; but at least they drive slowly past schools.

tombogan03884

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2010, 01:50:50 AM »
What kind of idiot passes around loaded guns in the house ?
The kind that see's a cheaper course than divorce ?

 

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