Author Topic: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"  (Read 31938 times)

billt

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #50 on: October 27, 2010, 07:10:29 AM »
What time will it be on Thursday? I can't trust my local TV Guide. It's wrong too many times. I've got the rewound, wasted VCR tape to prove it.  Bill T.

MikeBjerum

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #51 on: October 27, 2010, 07:49:04 AM »
From the link

Quote
CNBC’s “Remington Under Fire: A CNBC Investigation” will re-air on Wednesday, October 20th at 10PM ET/PT, Sunday, October 24th at 10PM ET, Thursday, October 28th at 8PM ET and 12AM ET, and Sunday, October 31st at 1AM ET.
If I appear taller than other men it is because I am standing on the shoulders of others.

billt

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #52 on: October 27, 2010, 08:09:25 AM »
Thanks.

Panzer1

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #53 on: October 28, 2010, 11:36:01 PM »
FYI: I found this article and thought I would pass it on.
Panzer




Maine Police Stops Using Remington Rifle
Published: Friday, 29 Oct 2010 | 12:08 AM ET
Text Size
By: Scott Cohn
Senior Correspondent, CNBC

The police department in Portland, ME, has become the latest law enforcement agency to stop using a popular sniper rifle over concerns the gun can go off without the trigger being pulled.

The rifle, the Remington 700 , is the subject of a CNBC Original documentary, “Remington Under Fire: A CNBC Investigation,” which revealed thousands of customer complaints, including from Portland police in 2009.

But Police Chief James Craig told the Portland Press Herald he was unaware how many other complaints there were until he viewed the CNBC report.

"I don't want to run the risk of having an accidental discharge like this where it puts an officer's or community member's life in danger," Chief Craig told the newspaper. He later confirmed to CNBC that the department's five Remington 700s have been taken out of service.

The CNBC program included video taken by Portland snipers and obtained by the network showing a rifle going off repeatedly when an officer touched the bolt. Chief Craig told the newspaper that the department had contacted Remington about the problem but was told the weapons were no longer under warranty.

Remington insists the popular rifle is safe, and in a statement for the CNBC program the company said that neither its own experts nor experts hired by plaintiffs' lawyers "has ever been able to duplicate such an event on rifles that had been properly maintained or have not been altered after sale."

RELATED LINKS

Current DateTime: 09:06:55 28 Oct 2010
LinksList Documentid: 39903417

    * Inside Remington Rifle's Controversial Trigger
    * Why Guns Can Only Be Recalled by Manufacturer
    * Deaths, Injuries and Lawsuits Raise Questions about Popular Gun's Safety

But Chief Craig told the newspaper the department's rifles were properly maintained and had not been altered or adjusted.  He did say that of the department's five rifles, only the one shown in the video had malfunctioned.

The Portland department is not the first agency to stop using the rifles. The police department in Kissimmee, FL, sold its 700s after one inadvertently went off during a drug raid in 2005, according to a department spokeswoman. And the national police force in New Zealand also stopped using the rifles due to safety concerns, officials told CNBC.

Versions of the rifle are also used by the U.S. military, and documents obtained by CNBC under the Freedom of Information Act show that inadvertent discharges of rifles at the Marine sniper training school at Camp Lejeune, NC, became such a concern, they led to meetings between Marine officials and Remington representatives in 2003, and eventually to changes in Marine Corps procedures for handling the rifles.

The Army recently awarded Remington a new contract for as many as 3,600 new sniper rifles, worth up to $28 million.

"For nearly fifty years, the Remington Model 700 rifle has been the preferred choice for millions of hunters, shooting sports enthusiasts and military and law enforcement personnel," Remington said in its earlier statement.
© 2010 CNBC.com

tombogan03884

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #54 on: October 29, 2010, 01:17:09 AM »
Don't put to much weight on this Panzer. Those A holes in Portland are EXTREMELY anti 2A, and have been for at least 30 years.
Look who they send to congress . Olympia Snowe and  Susan Collins, they put an R after their names, but they consistently vote with the most liberal of Dems.
They want to undo the Kansas / Nebraska act and return to being part of Mass.

Sponsor

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #55 on: Today at 12:56:19 PM »

billt

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #55 on: October 29, 2010, 09:14:57 AM »
Don't put to much weight on this Panzer. Those A holes in Portland are EXTREMELY anti 2A, and have been for at least 30 years.
Look who they send to congress . Olympia Snowe and  Susan Collins, they put an R after their names, but they consistently vote with the most liberal of Dems.
They want to undo the Kansas / Nebraska act and return to being part of Mass.

+1.

I never use information obtained from police departments as a judge of ANY firearm. If you want a perfect example look at this idiot police chief in Florida that ditched tens of thousands of dollars in Glocks simply because they had 2 of them kaboom in 2 separate incidents over a 2 year period. The incident was investigated and faulty ammunition was found to be the culprit. Speer even admitted to the fact. In spite of this Glock got the blame, and all of the false Internet badmouthing that followed.

If the Remington 700 is so bad, ask yourself why the government just gave them a $28,000,000.00, ($28 MILLION), contract for the next generation of sniper rifles? I'm not saying that a few of these guns have not malfunctioned, they proved that with video, and the sheer numbers of customer complaints. They all can't be lying. But what we don't know is what it curtailed up to the point of malfunction. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have a total of 4 Remington 700's and a Remington XP-100 pistol, all purchased from April of 1972 to early 1985. The last one I bought was a heavy barreled Varmint model in .22-250. The first was a BDL sporter in .300 Win. Mag.

When this was first reported back in the late 70's and early 80's I was concerned. I proceeded to try and screw with my guns in an attempt to make them malfunction at the range. I repeatedly engaged the safety, and disengaged it. Lifted the bolt, reengaging and disengaging the safety on all of them with the rifle sitting on a rest on a "hot" firing line with a live round in the chamber. I could never create a malfunction of any kind with any of my rifles. After that I dismissed the entire matter because I never use a safety on any of my firearms to begin with.

In a great many of these cases people were loading and unloading guns inside residences with people sitting in other rooms. (Woman was shot in the head and killed). There was the case of the Texas boar hunter who blew his own foot off. There was another cited in the program where a father almost shot off his sons hand. If you go back to the original accident that involved the mother killing her 9 year old son who she lost track of, every single one of these incidents could have been prevented if all of these people would have had their muzzles pointed straight up into the air instead of not paying attention to them and allowing them to wander.

I see poor gun handling all of the time. It is the main reason I stopped shooting at indoor ranges here in the Summertime. I've been muzzle swept too many times by idiots. I'm beginning to think this kind of thing is on the rise. Proper gun handling isn't stressed as much as it used to be. Just because a person "grew up around guns", or "hunted all of their lives", doesn't necessarily mean they know and practice safe gun handling. These accidents documented with the Remington 700 prove that. All it takes is one single slip, and the results can be tragic and have a profound effect on people for the rest of their lives. When you look at this in that regard, is a recall of these rifles going to change the way people handle their firearms? I'm not trying to use this as a cop out in defense of Remington, but the fact remains if any and all of these people would have paid attention to their muzzle when manipulating the moving parts on a loaded firearm regardless of the situation, none of these accidents would have happened, even if the gun had discharged just the same.  Bill T.

Timothy

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2010, 05:29:34 PM »
As a side bar, the guy suing Remington (the father of aforementioned 9 year old boy) is an active long range shooter and hunter and he himself owns a Model 700 and still shoots with it.  That was the part that bother me about the production, the man knows his wife phuqed up, regardless of how the gun discharged.

billt

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #57 on: October 29, 2010, 06:30:22 PM »
As a side bar, the guy suing Remington (the father of aforementioned 9 year old boy) is an active long range shooter and hunter and he himself owns a Model 700 and still shoots with it.  That was the part that bother me about the production, the man knows his wife phuqed up, regardless of how the gun discharged.

That got me as well. I've conversed with Jack Belk on several Internet forums about this subject back in early 2000. He personally sent me information on the Luis case in which he personally testified. This whole thing is sounding more and more convoluted. The guy suing Remington appears to be an avid shooter and handloader. If he firmly believes this rifle is such a hazard, I'm not sure of his methodology, or Belks for that matter. At least at this present time. Proper gun handling appears to be placed on the wayside here.

Then there is the introduction of the X-Mark Pro Trigger. Companies change fire control groups frequently. Marlin just did with their T-900 Fire Control Group on their rimfires to improve performance. The fact Remington is still selling their Walker Fire Control Group in addition to the X-Mark Pro tells me they still believe in it, and that it is in demand, or why would they keep producing it when they in fact have what most would call a "better" system considering all that has happened? Too much isn't adding up here.   Bill T.

tombogan03884

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #58 on: October 29, 2010, 08:14:36 PM »
That got me as well. I've conversed with Jack Belk on several Internet forums about this subject back in early 2000. He personally sent me information on the Luis case in which he personally testified. This whole thing is sounding more and more convoluted. The guy suing Remington appears to be an avid shooter and handloader. If he firmly believes this rifle is such a hazard, I'm not sure of his methodology, or Belks for that matter. At least at this present time. Proper gun handling appears to be placed on the wayside here.

Then there is the introduction of the X-Mark Pro Trigger. Companies change fire control groups frequently. Marlin just did with their T-900 Fire Control Group on their rimfires to improve performance. The fact Remington is still selling their Walker Fire Control Group in addition to the X-Mark Pro tells me they still believe in it, and that it is in demand, or why would they keep producing it when they in fact have what most would call a "better" system considering all that has happened? Too much isn't adding up here.   Bill T.

+ 10

billt

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #59 on: October 29, 2010, 08:36:18 PM »
The clincher here is the X-Mark Pro, Fire Control Group. Here is finally a chance for Remington to put this whole thing to bed with a system that is supposedly foolproof. At least from an accidental discharge standpoint. This system, (according to Jack Belk), has the exact same design improvement that Mike Walker had designed as an improvement into his original design before the gun went to mass market back in the early 50's.

 Yet Tom Milner who is now president and CEO of Cabela's after serving as Remington CEO for 10 years, still sells new 700's with the older Walker system. Most other retailers do much the same. Not every new Remington 700 out of Ilion has the new X-Mark Pro assembly. You have to wonder why not? The demand is still there for the Walker system. I'm not sure at this time, but I don't believe the new Army contract calls for X-Mark Pro Fire Control Groups on their next generation of sniper rifles. Personally I've handled new Remington 700 Stainless 5-R Mil-Spec barreled .308's with Walker assemblies in them. These guns were manufactured in the last 12 months out of Ilion, N.Y. I've never fired an X-Mark Pro equipped rifle, so a cannot vouch for how good of a trigger they are from a shooting standpoint. With that said I've never fired a Walker equipped 700 that had a poor trigger, including the 4 that I currently own.   Bill T.

 

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