Looking for an argument

[twyacht]

Hope & change?

Exactly "Hope & Change",.... a demoralized country, faced with unpayable reparations, sanctions, trade restrictions, created out of nothing,.... the most technological advanced weapons platforms, with a country that backed them. Respectable? yes.

Not that it was the right thing, but what an accomplishment.

Hindsight, and history shows the mistake that direction ultimately lead,.... Germans, above all others, know their mistakes of the past political regimes. Perhaps that's why I respect Chancellor Merkel now,for rejecting multiculturalism, and rejecting the EU bailout proposals.

There are folks, old men, to this day, who HATE General Patton, BUT they respect him, and what he accomplished.

As my Grandfather would have said: "Piss On Them" (Japanese,Germans),....there will never be any type of respect given to them, and I can respect what he went through, although, I will never know. His respect for his decision has been earned.

In modern politics, it becomes a gray area. I will never respect Darth Rahm, or the Emperor David Axelrod, personally, but the con job, snow job, scam, they pulled off getting BHO elected was downright brilliant.

Hopefully, we can return to respecting what folks like Madison, Adams, Franklin, Washington did.

[McGyver]

That's a "nail-head hit" twyacht!
"Hope and Change" has been a political tool for many many years! From Mao to Hitler, and Stalin to BHO!
 (and many more before them!)

BHO's plan was brilliant, until his promises fell apart, just like those before him!

[tombogan03884]

Actually, it wasn't even Hitler who began German rearmament, General Hans Von Seekt did in the Early 1920's.
The "commercial treaty" of 1922 between Wiemar (Germany) and the Soviet Union carried clauses that allowed the Riechswehr (Army ) to set up training centers on Soviet soil, not covered by the Treaty of Versailles, in exchange the Germans supplied factories that eventually built the tanks that defeated them.
They had similar agreements with Sweden and several other countries.
In fact, when Hitler assumed power in 1933 the German army was already 3 times it's allowed 100,000 man strength.

[McGyver]

Gee, do ya think we're a little affraid of the ANTICHRIST now? So many insurrections, so little time!     

Religion aside, I think we're ALL a little scared of "The Next Boogeyman" that will try to destroy this Great nation, aren't you?

[tombogan03884]

Gee, do ya think we're a little affraid of the ANTICHRIST now? So many insurrections, so little time!    

Religion aside, I think we're ALL a little scared of "The Next Boogeyman" that will try to destroy this Great nation, aren't you?

With good reason.
We laid the ground work for disaster on the political/economic front, when we began to abandon the rules of the Constitutional Republic, in favor of the "instant gratification" of democracy.
At the same time we are laying the ground work for natural disaster with our total dependence on electronics, computer chips and a fragile unprotected electrical grid .
The solar flares of 2012 are being predicted to be the most severe since the 1880's. Back then they built up so much energy that telegraph wires set their poles on fire.
How do you think that will work out with a society dependent on computer chips that are so delicate they have to be kept in anti static baggies until installation ? More, we're partially shielded by the atmosphere, our satellites aren't. They are toast, no more communications. land lines may hold up locally but the sheer mass of modern communications would immediately overwhelm the system.

Back to your point, either way you look at it we are heading for a disaster,the system that history shows always follows the chaos of a failed democracy is Dictatorship.
Best bet would be to make sure it's "my guy" who gets the job.    

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

With good reason.
We laid the ground work for disaster on the political/economic front, when we began to abandon the rules of the Constitutional Republic, in favor of the "instant gratification" of democracy.
At the same time we are laying the ground work for natural disaster with our total dependence on electronics, computer chips and a fragile unprotected electrical grid .
The solar flares of 2012 are being predicted to be the most severe since the 1880's. Back then they built up so much energy that telegraph wires set their poles on fire.
How do you think that will work out with a society dependent on computer chips that are so delicate they have to be kept in anti static baggies until installation ? More, we're partially shielded by the atmosphere, our satellites aren't. They are toast, no more communications. land lines may hold up locally but the sheer mass of modern communications would immediately overwhelm the system.

Back to your point, either way you look at it we are heading for a disaster,the system that history shows always follows the chaos of a failed democracy is Dictatorship.
Best bet would be to make sure it's "my guy" who gets the job.    

Agreed with the above, except the dictatorship bit. I hope self interest and the lessons of history will save us from that, though I am not overly confident. You say you want it to be "your guy" in charge. Me? The only person I would trust with that much power would be myself. The one thing I share in common with George Washington is that when it comes to that kind of power, I don't trust myself either. I hope a politically crucial majority will feel the same way.
FQ13

[Solus]

Agreed with the above, except the dictatorship bit. I hope self interest and the lessons of history will save us from that, though I am not overly confident. You say you want it to be "your guy" in charge. Me? The only person I would trust with that much power would be myself. The one thing I share in common with George Washington is that when it comes to that kind of power, I don't trust myself either. I hope a politically crucial majority will feel the same way.
FQ13

I expect we will have more than one definition of a "politically crucial majority" here, particularly in regards to the methods and tools it uses to ensure the success of it's ideology.  "Majority" will likely mean  "Enough to get the job done".

[seeker_two]

Attila the Hun....Lucius Sulla....Lorenzo di Medici.....look them up.....

[tombogan03884]

When democracies fail they descend into chaos, with the previously favored and divided sub groups fighting for the scraps of resources that remain. like in Somalia or Iraq after the fall of Saddam.
The only effective method of restoring order is for one group to achieve the ability to mass locally overwhelming force and impose it at the point of a gun.
This means that whether it calls itself a "ruling council" or what ever, one Person or group will have to govern by decree, and back them up with force. At a minimum until order is restored, but more likely until some level of prosperity has been re achieved. That is when people stop worrying about food and start thinking about their rights or lack of.

Attila the Hun....Lucius Sulla....Lorenzo di Medici.....look them up.....

As a tribal leader I'm not sure that Attila belongs on the list, he was tightly controlled by his customs and beliefs, so while he will never be considered a "republican", (the philosophy, not the Party ) I don't think he qualifies as a true autocrat either.

[seeker_two]

As a tribal leader I'm not sure that Attila belongs on the list, he was tightly controlled by his customs and beliefs, so while he will never be considered a "republican", (the philosophy, not the Party ) I don't think he qualifies as a true autocrat either.

Looking at the way he played Rome against itself and its allies and his ultimate "victory," I'd say he was the epitome of a politician....