The Deindustrialization Of America

[ccd]

A lot of America's problems are the result of Americans embracing the ideas the ideals of socialism/the green movement in its various forms down through time. More people = more wealth and always has in regards to national power. When American birth rates began to plummet America's manufacturing base was doomed. You have to have cheap labor to compete in the global marketplace and American labor is anything but cheap now, even with millions of illegal aliens here. This decline in fertility is also greatly responsible for the disappearance of the middle class.

[twyacht]

Unions, not necessarily the everyday Joe, that goes to work, but the Mgt. of organized labor, has run this countries manufacturing base into the ground.

That's one reason they suck up to primarily Democrat/Socialist politicians. Take Mich. as an example or the North East, the more union/Democrat majorities, the worse off the state.

1894 Winchesters are now made in Japan.... May have nothing to do with any specific union, but from a manufacturing point of view, ??

 

[tombogan03884]

It's not just the model 94 made in Japan, the model 70 is now made in SC. Ruger started in NH, but when they opened a second plant it was in Az. S&W opened their new plant in Holton Me. Why ? Labor costs are lower.
It reinforces what TW what saying.

[Pathfinder]

You are to pessimistic Path, look at what Germany did between 1945 when there was nothing left but rubble, what we had not bombed to pieces the Soviets loaded onto train cars and hauled off as "reparations". and 1960 when papers were talking about the "economic miracle".
First order of business is the complete restructuring of a much smaller, less intrusive Govt. and a purge of the self destructive socialist elements with in our society.

Lots of differences in the scenarios between now and then, Tom. #1, we forced them to redevelop as a buffer against the Russkies. Yes, the Germans in general are far more diligent than the Haitians, but then so is my chair!    And we're not there in Haiti pushing them either.

My point was that - as you said in your second paragraph - we have to undo a great deal, and I am not at all convinced we can do that, what with the gummint becoming all grabby and delvy (taking what ain't theirs and diving into matters that aren't theirs either).

I wasn't being honest so much as I was being realistic. You and I may agree on some things - hell, all of us here may be in perfect alignment on this. However, there are millions of public school graduates who would vote for bho again, who think he ain't doing enough, and want to see more along the same lines. Simply put, we are outnumbered by the democracy-ites and that is why I think we are toast.

Best case, carve out some states out west and set up a Federal-free zone. Either that or - God forbid - a hot war, a revolution. Like 1776, there may be 3% of the population willing to fight FOR this country instead of for the entitlements.

Long shot? Electing people who will not be corrupted by the system in DC and who will be willing to undo everything that has been done in the last 50 years. Realistically? The leaders of any movement like that will be killed ("heart attacks", "car accidents", assassination, etc.) or prosecuted and jailed by those who stand to gain by selling the US short. People like Soros and the others like him who stay out of sight and the press. The leaders will die, and the others will get the message, and vote accordingly, or go back to the farm/ranch in Illinois/Idaho/Montana/Ohio/wherever.

[Timothy]

I work in manufacturing and have most of my life.  This new position and company has a much larger customer base than the last.

I can say, without a doubt, that the people I'm doing business with today are IDIOTS!  My customers cannot draw, some design things that cannot be fabricated easily and wonder why their quotes for are so f....k expensive.  They don't get the point that close tolerance costs money and threaten to move elsewhere unless they get their way. 

Thankfully, we have a good customer base or some of these boneheads that threaten to leave don't adversely affect our bottom line.  I'm afraid that with those of us who know what we're doing reaching the end of our careers, the kids coming up aren't going to pick up the slack.  I've not met an engineer in the last twenty years that could mop a floor properly let alone design a complicated part that could be manufactured cost effectively.

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

Lots of differences in the scenarios between now and then, Tom. #1, we forced them to redevelop as a buffer against the Russkies. Yes, the Germans in general are far more diligent than the Haitians, but then so is my chair!    And we're not there in Haiti pushing them either.

My point was that - as you said in your second paragraph - we have to undo a great deal, and I am not at all convinced we can do that, what with the gummint becoming all grabby and delvy (taking what ain't theirs and diving into matters that aren't theirs either).

I wasn't being honest so much as I was being realistic. You and I may agree on some things - hell, all of us here may be in perfect alignment on this. However, there are millions of public school graduates who would vote for bho again, who think he ain't doing enough, and want to see more along the same lines. Simply put, we are outnumbered by the democracy-ites and that is why I think we are toast.

Best case, carve out some states out west and set up a Federal-free zone. Either that or - God forbid - a hot war, a revolution. Like 1776, there may be 3% of the population willing to fight FOR this country instead of for the entitlements.

Long shot? Electing people who will not be corrupted by the system in DC and who will be willing to undo everything that has been done in the last 50 years. Realistically? The leaders of any movement like that will be killed ("heart attacks", "car accidents", assassination, etc.) or prosecuted and jailed by those who stand to gain by selling the US short. People like Soros and the others like him who stay out of sight and the press. The leaders will die, and the others will get the message, and vote accordingly, or go back to the farm/ranch in Illinois/Idaho/Montana/Ohio/wherever.

You and I agree more than you may think on what you have posted here.
The one thing I will say that you are wrong about is that the "Tools" are not so much "Public school graduates", (Which includes most of the membership here ) but those who have gone on to college for the advanced indoctrination Like my Sister.
As a quick reference, who are considered to be our resident liberals ? TAB and FQ, a college graduate and a Prof.
As to the 3%, 11 years ago I would have agreed totally, Now, with the TEA party and ground swell of public dissatisfaction, Not so much.
I agree that many, probably the majority don't really understand where the problems come from, but if you lead them they will follow.
As far as "Leaders" having accidents, the answer lies in setting up a more cellular organization, small local groups possibly trading information and ideas, but primarily operating on their own, much the way Al Qaeda does. along that same thinking gathering in one region or area is suicide, it presents the oppressors with a single target to isolate and destroy, it is more effective, and longer lived to be every where at once.
One of the best parts of the movie V for Vendetta was the part that ended with the little girl getting shot, the mask was every where, but V was no where.
The best possible solution would be through the Supreme court, like in Honduras,  it did not require violence, and their was no question among the citizens about the legitimacy of the actions.
It would also be in line with the ideas set forth in the Declaration of Independence.

"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

[SwoopSJ]

The one thing I will say that you are wrong about is that the "Tools" are not so much "Public school graduates", (Which includes most of the membership here ) but those who have gone on to college for the advanced indoctrination Like my Sister.

I happen to be both a public school and college graduate, and although some may disagree, I think my head sits pretty ,squarely upon my shoulders.  A major part of my college education involved questioning everything, however.  I didn't just accept things as fact because someone with a more advanced degree told me it was so.  I wanted to actually understand why things were the way they were.  Those who are willing demanding to be led blindly, without question, will do so regardless of whether or not they are highly educated.  The learned "sheeple" are just more articulate in demonstrating their ignorance.

Swoop

[tombogan03884]

I happen to be both a public school and college graduate, and although some may disagree, I think my head sits pretty ,squarely upon my shoulders. A major part of my college education involved questioning everything, however.  I didn't just accept things as fact because someone with a more advanced degree told me it was so.  I wanted to actually understand why things were the way they were.  Those who are willing demanding to be led blindly, without question, will do so regardless of whether or not they are highly educated.  The learned "sheeple" are just more articulate in demonstrating their ignorance.
Swoop

That requires independent thought. The willingness to put in that extra effort is what separates the truly "educated" from the "indoctrinated". In my own case, a lot of my idea's come from the need to keep my mind active while doing repetitive operations that required no thought, so I think over things I have read or heard from other sources, sometimes to completely different items will click together, such as the similarity between international relations and kids on a playground.

Meant to add this earlier but I agree completely with Tim's post. I don't deal with customers but I have seen so called "engineer's" come up with some really dumb things.
It has lead me to the conclusion that just because it says Lionel on your hat, does not mean you can drive the train  
The only Engineer I ever really respected got his degree from some diploma mill,( or maybe made it up ) but he had about 20 years experience actually DOING the work. The ones nowadays plug some numbers into a program like Surfcam or Autocad, and think they know it all.